Asus hasn’t made any official announcements regarding its first laptop to feature an AMD Zacate processor, but the company did put one out on display at its CES suite this week. The Asus Eee PC 1215B looks a lot like other 1215-series notebooks from the Asus, but on the inside it packs a 1.6GHz AMD E-350 dul core processor and AMD Radeon graphics.
The notebook will be available with 2GB to 4GB of RAM, 250GB to 320GB of hard drive space, and a 6 cell battery. It runs Windows 7 and features 802.11b/g/n WiFi and Bluetooth 3.0. The Eee PC 1215B weighs about 3.2 pounds.
The laptop will comes in black, silver, or red, but the only model at the show was black.
Like other Asus notebooks, the demo model featured a number of Asus apps including the Super Hybrid Engine for underclocking and overclocking the processor. I’ll be interested in seeing how well this works with the new AMD E-350 chip.
Asus also placed a placard near the notebook display showing how the AMD E-350 Zacate and C-30 single-core Ontario chips compare with Atom chips in benchmarks. The Zacate scored almost twice as high as an Atom N550 dual core chip in PCMark05 and wiped the floor in the 3DMark06 test with a score of over 2300, compared with 154 for the N550.
There’s no word on the release date or price for this model yet.
The Asus Eee PC 1215B looks a lot like, The Zacate scored almost twice as high as an Atom N550 dual core chip in PCMark05 and wiped the floor in the 3DMark06 test with a score of over 2300, compared with 154 for the N550.
Brad I don’t want to come off as a troll regarding this. Everybody can run their sites how they want. Since you are the top dog who am I to question your or your choices on your site? I’m about as significant to you as that pebble that’s stuck under your shoe. But…
You can refuse to consider anything above 10.1″ as a netbook. So confirm that when or if the 10.1″ size goes the way of the 8.9″, that you will officially or semi-officially announce the death of netbooks.
The cards with the 1215B CLEARLY call it a netbook. Can you read that? Obviously you have no loyalty to the category, or you know it all, or you don’t care, or you fear ridicule by your peers. I think it’s the latter quite honestly. But again, Asus is calling this a netbook, but you intentionally don’t. It’s all over the product card! I know, you and others know the product better than Asus.
Again, yeah, it’s your site, you don’t like labels and yadda yadda yadda. And yes I know you know how the internet works. You obviously have no dependency whatsoever towards netbooks anymore. You once did and they put your site on the map. Now you are doing what you can to kill them off. To each his own I always say.
This is my last word here on the subject.
Rants are funny things, problem is they often have nothing to do with reality.
Like Brad doesn’t actually refuse to consider anything, just points out that a product category has factors that determine whether a product properly fits that category or not and a product that doesn’t fit all those factors starts to drift into other categories.
Ignoring overlap does nothing but confuse the end consumer and the readers of these reviews.
Also this rant ignores that market trends now showing up that many future devices in the netbook performance range will actually go smaller! Especially with Intel intending to push Moorestown and Oak Trail into smaller mobile products and even Smart Phones.
Even CULV’s are getting down to 10″ and 7″ systems! So 10″ size isn’t going anywhere, it’s just not going to be all netbooks at that size anymore.
Besides, changing the parameters for what can be called a Netbook does nothing but make the name ultimately pointless as it confuses it with other product categories. Especially when another product category better describes the product.
So altering what can be called a netbook, just for convenience of including more product variations, does more harm to the netbook category than helps it!
With respect, I don’t know your background regarding websites or internet. I would suspect it’s very limited. So appreciate the fact that I can see this from a broader view.
The fact is, it’s an important and relevant discussion. The trend is towards 11.6″ and not 8.9″. The FACT is, Brad and many others refuse to consider 11.6″ or 12″ as netbooks (regardless of the label on the product as in this article) which does mean, the category could and most likely die off simply because they all become notebooks. A big deal? Not to your average end user, but to other website owners, yeah, it’s a big deal.
The fact is the so called “experts” don’t even know what “netbook” is or isn’t. I guess their brains hurt too much when thinking about it? The FACT is people consider 11.6″ as a netbook. But “people” don’t write content on the web. By Brad’s own definition the 1015B isn’t a netbook because netbook are not supposed to be fast or powerful. Wouldn’t we all agree that ION as an example, doesn’t fit in the “gutless” category??
It’s easy. Less 10.1″ laptops released means less and less netbook presence. Less stories. If 11.6″ laptops increase the notebook presence. Fast forward. Inevitable netbook demise.
I am one of the few people out there beating the drum on this. Again not important to the end user, but netbook sites should care about it. I just see the whole thing as total and complete ignorance. I’m trying to steer the ship straight, but I give up because ignorance and stubbornness will sink the ship in the end. Not my control or doing and I’m fine with that.
Please don’t put words in my mouth. We’ve been over this before. As far as I’m concerned, a netbook is a cheap 10 inch or smaller computer. Power has nothing to do with it. Because the only way to produce a cheap 10 inch computer in the past has been to use a cheap, low power processor, most netbooks have had low performance CPUs. But just like I decline to say that Atom = netbook (some of the earliest models had Intel Celeron or VIA C7 chips), I don’t believe that by definition a netbook needs to have a slow processor.
I’ve also stated any number of times that I’ve never liked the term “netbook” because it implies that this class of computer is *only* useful for surfing the web. That’s not true and it never has been. There were portable web devices before the Eee PC 701. What made that device and all that followed it exciting was the fact that they were full fledged computers capable of doing many different things and running all sorts of software (even if they couldn’t run all apps as well as their big siblings in some cases) while maintaining a relatively low price tag and reasonably small size.
But I’ve been using the term netbook for the last few years because it’s one that the industry has generally adopted for these little computers and when writing for a general audience, it’s best to use familiar terms.
I’m just as interested in 11 and 12 inch models as I am in 7 to 10 inchers. But just because a couple of companies sometimes refer to the larger machines as netbooks doesn’t mean that’s the generally accepted consensus. So I refer to them as laptops, ultraportables, thin and lights, or what have you.
If people stop using the word “netbook,” that’s fine with me. But I also wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that netbooks have gone the way of the dodo just because we don’t hear as much news about 10 inch mini-laptops as we used to.
News, by definition, is about “new” things… and right now, there’s a lot of attention being paid to tablets and other new categories of computers, just as a few years ago netbooks got a lot of attention. It’s not entirely clear yet whether consumers will lap up the hundreds of tablets that every PC makers is intent on cranking out in the coming year or not. It may be that there’s only really room for a few big names. Apple is already doing well in the tablet space, as is Samsung. Motorola has generated a lot of excitement. It may be that we’re truly on the verge of a tablet revolution — or maybe a loft of these devices will flop. I don’t know, but I’ll be paying attention.
I’ve also been paying attention to netbooks — and they’re still coming out, just not at the same rapid-fire pace as they used to. And as far as I can tell, they’re still selling. It’s just that for much of 2010 there hasn’t been much to say about them, as virtually every model came out with the same specs.
2011 should be a lot more interesting as we see models with AMD Ontario and Zacate chips as well as Oak Trail and Cedar Trail models later this year — although it’s just as possible that we’ll see those chips powering larger computers. If the general consensus is that these computers become known as netbooks, bugalaboos, or Martians, I’ll probably adopt those terms for them. But since “netbook” seems to imply a severely limited feature set, I wouldn’t be at all upset if people started to call 12 *and* 10 inch models what they are: small laptops.
Given how passionate you’ve been about this, I’m starting to wonder if perhaps you’ve registered a domain name with the word netbook in it.
Thanks for adding a comment. Yes, you got the passionate part correct.
I know you’ve thought this out over the past year or two. I get the cheap part but the 10″ part I don’t get. So as I assumed, a move to 11.6″ would on your site, kill netbooks off. Interesting. Say that’s not possible? Right. Where are all those 7 and 8.9″ models now? Yeah. Is 10.1″ ideal? Not a chance. Is 11.6″ the best? Yes it is. Hey, netbooks started off around 7, and those died, so don’t kid yourself in thinking that 10.1″ are here forever. It would only be the control of Intel that would keep it that way. A good 11.6″ can steal away sales from the higher end models. I get that. But what you’re saying is that as the 10.1″ models dwindle, and the 11.6″ rise, isn’t the killing off of netbooks? To me that’s pretty clear. It’s obvious. Sure there might be 10% of laptops at the 10.1″ but then they would be essentially so fringe that they would cease to exist. There is no money in it, so it shrivels up and dies off.
I think you are stuck in the past, and I mean that with the utmost respect and not to sound insulting. I mean that in the sense that you may be one of the few people who associate “netbook” with a computer that surfs the internet and not much else? Haven’t you been paying attention to what they can do at this point? People still call them netbooks if only for the 10.1″ form factor. The reality is, that if you think current, netbook is more secondary computer and not much more than that. Nobody takes the “net” from netbook as meaning oh, I’ll buy this because I only want to surf the internet. If that’s part of your criteria then I ask why you call anything a netbook anymore.
I guess the reality is, you have forgotten where you came from. Netbooks did a lot for you. You could and still can enter “netbook” anything and your site sees thousands of visitors. So to say you don’t “care” about netbooks and whether people call them that anymore is slightly insulting my intelligence. I’m sure at one point you were quite excited about the growth of “netbook” in Google. At one point if I asked you about “netbook” you depended on them and if that collapsed, you site would have amounted to well, nothing like it is today. The category built your site to what it is, but you’re ok with that term going the way of the dodo. In essence your choices are making the demise a reality. And no, I’m not overstating that fact.
Ah, but that no longer is such a big deal. I admire what you’ve done. Don’t get me wrong in that regard. I’m sure you’ve done well enough that “netbook” no longer matters. That’s called forgetting where you came from in my books. I truly think you underestimate your influence on the web. Netbook/premium netbook means secondary computer to a lot of people. I guess I’m trying to nail something down for the sake of everyone. It’s falling on deaf ears, and I hear that loud and clearly.
Good day to you and fellow commentators.
Sorry, though you may finally consider it no longer a big deal I have to correct more of your assumptions.
First you didn’t pay attention to what Brad said. He correctly pointed out that netbooks isn’t really a good term to call them in the first place. So he already knows they can do more and only uses the term because it’s what the consumers are calling them. Next the site is called liliputing, i.e. small computers, and not netbooks!
Yes, ignoring all the reports on UMPC’s, SSD’s, CULV’s, nettops, Mini ITX systems, embedded systems, etc. netbooks have been a big part of it but only because until recently there wasn’t that many options in the small computing market for the average consumer but that is no longer the case.
There’s this little thing most people call progress. Clinging to the past is what you’re actually doing and not Brad.
Just because there are now more choices doesn’t mean any single market category will just vanish. People who need computers on the go will continue to want computers for on the go use. And as of right now netbook sales have not dropped but actually increased from last year, the vast majority are still 10″ and companies making netbooks are already on record saying this isn’t going to change any time soon.
Netbooks have just reached market saturations. So no new company are going to take up making them to increase production numbers and most people already have netbooks and are only concerned with upgrades. So like other notebooks, netbooks have started to become just another part of the market but only if people no longer want them will they stop making them.
Besides, you’re clinging to an ideal that existed even before the term netbooks was invented. Netbooks were not the first mini-computers and they won’t be the last.
Really, after the initial surprise demand for netbooks that created the present market, the main thing that has kept netbooks from evolving like the rest of the market is because of its low profit margin caused Intel and MS to impose limitations on what could be called netbooks. Since netbooks are made with far smaller profit margin than any other part of the market. So to protect their profit margins in the rest of the market they imposed limitations to justify the separation and cost difference between netbooks and other notebook products, as well as making it easier to produce these netbooks at lowest possible cost.
This is why most netbooks are all but identical aside from appearance and minor tweaks. Along with the lack of competition has prevented the need to advance the platform and combined with the imposed limitations are why netbooks have remained pretty much the same for over 2 years, which is absolutely not the norm for any other part of the computer market, but now Intel is finally getting real competition from both ARM and AMD.
While reporters and bloggers aren’t involved in any of that and just report what the market news there is. It may have been a blogger that first coined the phrase netbook but it was the consumers that made it the standard term and consumers will determine when and if that changes!
As always, with respect I say I wasn’t questioning your knowledge of netbooks or computers. You know your stuff.
I’m referring to your apparent lack of understanding of Google, keywords, websites, etc. That world is what I’m talking about. It’s a bigger scope than the product itself.
I can’t say it any clearer. Cutting off “netbook” at 10 inches makes no sense to me. Terms are somewhat annoying for sure.
The fact is, what I’m saying is true and is becoming more and more common on this site. The fact is, because > 10″ isn’t a netbook, there hasn’t been 5% written in the past 6 months on them. Ah, but if those 11.6″ were premium netbooks or netbooks then sure there are lots of netbook stories. You have your proof of the killing off of netbooks.
I feel like this is getting into a political/religious debate. People feel strongly about their choices. I’m not waving a fist in anyone’s face or pleading with anyone to see the world the way I see it. I’m merely pointing out that this site and others have effectively dwindled and dwarfed netbook coverage. Sure sure that’s because there haven’t been any netbook stories right? Well that’s where I bet to differ.
It’s simple. If 10.1″ goes the way of 8.9″, then the category is dead. Done. Over. That’s the reality. When they cross into 11.6″ apparently they stop becoming netbooks and stop becoming a secondary computer.
I get the “dog eat dog” world and who gives a damn about “netbooks” anyways. I still think this comes down to fear from peers. That’s just my opinion though.
Once again, as I’ve promised about 5 times in the past, this is my final word on the subject! 😉
You have tried to be respectful and I’ll give you that even though what you have stated has been rather insulting and accusatory.
But you keep on trying to portray your opinion as fact when most of what you have said is really just your opinion. You are entitled to your opinion but that doesn’t mean you won’t be challenged when you try to impose those opinions and call them facts.
Like after Brad clarified his position you still tried to distort it. You either ignored what he actually stated or glossed over it, which in either case is bad and shows you really haven’t properly considered all the factors.
Things like the actual history of netbooks. Most people get facts like the idea netbooks were always around $200 when they started closer to $500. Many people even think the term netbook was invented by the companies when it was really coined by a blogger and only got adopted because practically everyone started calling them netbooks.
The perception of netbooks has been a bit distorted from the very start. And yes, I’ve followed many websites, use google profusely and keywords every single day for years. I also know if you use a search term enough you change how the results are organized.
And just to be clear, just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean they lack any understanding you think you have, nor does assuming your understanding is accurate actually means you’re right in your conclusions. Especially when basing your conclusions on what other peoples opinions are…
Like, for an example, more than a few articles have been published that artificially inflated the importance of tablets, especially the iPad. Stating things like they are killing netbooks when they are doing nothing of the sort yet, with total sales far surpassing all tablets combined and more being sold in 2010 than were sold in 2009. Or making surveys without showing who is being surveyed, so readers who didn’t know the source would never know things like all those polled were say iPad users and the percentages of use were from just them and no one else. Clearly distorting the results in their favor. While many others try to portray netbooks negatively… All of which would have effected your Google searches, keyword searches, etc. Never mind the fact that the lack of actual market news is because there is little to no news about netbooks for anyone to report! Just like there is little to no news about other notebooks. Simply not having much news about a product doesn’t mean that product is on the way out!
I could point out stuff like this all day but you go ahead and think you know the facts and liliputing and other similar sites are going to single handedly destroy the netbook market.
FYI, here are the top keyword searches that have brought Google searchers to Liliputing since June, 2008, when I started tracking. You’ll notice the word netbook only shows up twice on the list. There’s a reason the tag line for this site has long been “compact computing” rather than “writing about netbooks.”
Look, I’ll be the first to admit I get annoyed when I hear people banging the “netbooks are dead” drum. But I also get annoyed when I see people trying to expand the definition of a netbook to fit their marketing plans – which is exactly what happened when we started seeing some companies start calling their 10 and 12 inch models netbooks. At the same time, some companies have *never called their 10 inch computers netbooks, instead using words like “mini-notebook.”
The words that we use to describe the computers we love has little bearing on this site. The most important google searches are much more specific than that, with people finding exactly the product they were looking for, not a broad category description.
I’m sure you’ll continue to find fault with what I’m doing, and that’s fine. There’s a reason I don’t bother responding to 9/10ths of the comments you leave on this topic — because clearly we see things differently. But it’s a bit annoying when you insist that you know more about running a web site than the guys running a web site.
1. (other) – 2.2mil
2. liliputing – 213k
3. netbook review 43k
4. install windows xp from usb – 42k
5. lilliputing – 39k
6. netbook reviews – 37k
7. ace aspire 1410 – 25k
8. asus eee pc 1005ha – 24k
9. android tablet – 21k
10. asus ul20a – 20k
11. install xp from usb – 19k
12. notion ink adam – 17k
13. acer aspire one drivers – 17k
14. archos 101 – 16k
15. 1005ha – 15k
16. samsung n150 – 15k
17. acer 1410 – 14k
18. super hybrid engine – 13k
19. install windows from usb – 13k
20. adam tablet – 12k
I know Brad I’ve said it about 10 times that I’ve made my peace on the subject. I completely respect what your site does and the way you do what you do. Your success speaks to that.
I couldn’t dispute your numbers. All I can say is type in netbook *insert any word under the sun here* and your site will show up. Google considers you the #1 netbook source and that’s very obvious if you spend time with Google.
The only fact that can’t be disputed, is that are far as you are concerned, if the 10.1″ goes the way of 8.9″, that you netbook coverage is all but over. You’ve said it yourself. That’s my only point. And if you’re this #1 source on the subject of netbooks, that pretty much means you would be leading the way on influencing the fall of the category.
Companies don’t want anything to do with netbooks and you can’t convince me otherwise. Reason? They can’t charge an arm and a leg for them, and thanks to many “experts”, they keep wanting to say netbooks are one trick ponies and once they can do a bit more, then they aren’t netbooks anymore. So of course Toshiba don’t want their 11.6″ thought of as a netbook because there is a stigma attached to “netbook”. You’re actually helping keep this stigma alive. If you take notice, Asus are “trying” to dispell this notion of netbook = gutless. The only problem they have though, is that people writing about laptops suddenly remove netbook from the description because geez, this thing isn’t a one trick pony.
That’s all that I’m talking about here. You are the blog god imo, so I don’t question your reputation or your expertise or your credibility. It’s tops in my mind. I’m just frustrated to see a class of computers that I’ve believed in from day 1 going the way of the dodo because of simply archaic definitions. That’s it.
Again, my final rant on the subject! 😉
Heck I don’t want to troll, I just want to discuss openly what seems like a very real possibility in the near future as the 11.6″ take over. Again, I just say 11.6″ is the ideal. If you ever had an actual post on the subject then all the thoughts could get aired out there, and I wouldn’t have to feel like a troll. Please don’t call me that, I will cry.
God speed and party on everyone!!
1) Netbooks are not just going the way of the dodo, at most they just won’t be called netbooks anymore. Just because a product has reached market saturation doesn’t mean it’s suddenly going to cease to exist.
Notebooks have been at market saturation for years and they’re still selling them for example. Everyone just knows what a netbook is already and there isn’t much left to talk about them. But even if it eventually does, most usually just evolve into different products and doesn’t mean the role it filled will suddenly be left open.
2) It’s not stigma that Intel and MS imposed limitations and standards for what could be called a netbook. What you don’t realize is the full ramifications of those limits being eased and that’s actually better for netbooks as we’re now reaching the point that they can be made better. The term to describe them may just change.
3) Thanks to the economy and increased competition the profit premiums they can charge are all going down and no longer do netbooks need to be the only affordable option.
4) So long as people need portable options companies will make products to fit those options and that include both traditional and non-traditional netbook form factors.
5) Terms used to describe a product should actually describe the product! Otherwise it’s just chaos as everyone uses there own definition for all the terms.
You’ve tied the whole thing just to the term, that didn’t even correctly describe the product to begin with, when it was always more.
Amen. I’ll use an 11″ thin-and-light when they pry my 10″ bugalaboo from my cold, dead Martian hands.
Sorry but your assumptions are incorrect. I’m far from being inexperienced, quite the opposite in fact, and know quite a lot about netbooks in particular.
The reason there are less stories about netbooks is not because they are making fewer of them or the size is shifting but because there is less to distinguish them anymore. Netbooks haven’t really changed much in over 2 years.
Netbooks have also reached market saturation and are no longer the new “thing”. Some have just been spoiled by the last few years of rapid expansion and expect that to always be the norm when just looking at any other product category that has been around for more than a few years you’ll find the same lack of news!
While other netbook types that are either larger or offer features like ION graphics are the premium netbooks and not to be confused with mainstream netbooks!
Just like regular notebooks there are ranges of subcategories, like the difference between a business laptop and a gaming laptop. Even netbooks themselves are a sub-category of sub/mini-notebooks along with CULV’s and UMPC’s.
But like previously pointed out there are points that these categories start to overlap and there becomes a point that a product is better described by a different category.
The problem is these other sub-categories are starting to overlap netbooks. So expanding the definition of netbooks only causes it to come into conflict with these other product categories and starts to make the term irrelevant and just causes confusion with the other overlapping categories.
You want to beat the drum then create a online petition and get as many people as you can to sign it to promote netbooks or use it to suggest a new type that will stand out. Cause what you’re doing now isn’t helping!
It was a geeky rant but the truth is plain and simple, gman… — you are RIGHT on this one.
I didn’t even realize that Brad was intentionally/purposefully referring to these next-generation netbooks as “notebooks” until I read your comments — as well as his response. The logic behind this is a bit fuzzy? And I don’t understand it?
His labeling of the 1215B actually confused me, now that I think about it! They clearly are netbooks but I basically ignored them altogether thinking that they were small laptops or such (such as a 14 incher with a different purpose). Why purposefully cause such silly confusion? And what will be next? A refusal to refer to upcoming ARM-based systems as netbooks? Or as only smartbooks? This is silly.
Brad, it might be a good idea to avoid muddying the waters unnecessarily and stick to conventional wisdom. Asus is not devoid in logic with respect to referring to their own product as a netbook (and need I remind anyone that we are referring to the company Asus here?).
An 11-12 inch screen (with the smallest bezel possible) is indeed the ideal size for a netbook. And this is exactly where the near future is headed! As far as I’m concerned, the smaller screen sizes can be left up to the upcoming mega-flood of tablets that will saturate the market.
The term ‘computer’, for example, is now synonymous with laptop, netbook, etc. And why is that a bad thing? Because we are left with only a small irrelevant minority whom still think of clunky desktops with reference to the use of the word ‘computer’. Pretty soon ‘computer’ will mean the tiny, handheld, ipod touch-like device in your hands as these devices will very soon have enough juice under the hood to power everything (including Windows 8, the ability to connect to large computer monitors, etc.).
A netbook is and has ALWAYS been nothing more than a “more” portable laptop.
It’s not rocket science.
How does 11.6 inches not fall into this category? But the bigger clunky laptops, on the other hand, aren’t going anywhere either. They are the new ‘computer’ and will always be around due to their perfect design and larger screen size.
Coming up next, we will be debating whether or not the next 11.6 incher is a netbook due to the fact that it is smaller in dimension, lighter in weight, and has longer battery life than today’s 10.1 netbooks!
STOP THIS!!! …for Pete’s sake! : )
The logic is very simple, netbooks are not the only sub-notebook!
And AMD is marketing the Zacate between the ATOM and Intel’s CULV products. So is intended more of a netbook alternative than an actual netbook.
Not to mention you’re ignoring the UMPC and CULV devices, which are all meant to be mini-laptops. Netbooks distinctly differ because they are made at low cost and low performance. The term netbook itself was more of a misnomer from the start because even the first netbooks could do more than just surf the web. But the name stuck and the industry adopted it as a standard by imposing limits on what could be called a netbook. These limitations don’t exist for any other notebook product and products that don’t impose those limits are what start to fall outside of what you could call a netbook.
Most of the expansion of the term of netbook was not an actual expansion of netbooks but rather a marketing scheme to capitalize on the netbook brand recognition. Like people want to associate even the Macbook Air with netbooks even though the price and internal hardware do not meet netbook standards. Never mind Apple itself refused the association.
People expect netbooks to be low cost, small, and low performing. While 11.6″ are also covered by CULV’s, this year there will even be 10″ and 7″ CULV products, and not just netbooks, with CULV’s dominating the 11.6″ to 13.3″ range and netbooks only dominating the 10″ range. While UMPC tend to be smaller but some enter into the 7″ range. So also overlap with netbooks.
This overlap is causing confusion on which is which and that’s why we’re disagreeing with you and gman.
While many people don’t recognize larger netbooks as actual netbooks because they step beyond being small. Like there are 15″ systems running with Intel ATOM processors and there are UMPC’s with ATOM processors as well. When size or form factor changes how you use the system then it also changes the terms by which you use to describe the system.
ARM bases systems are basically called Smartbooks for the same reasons they call ARM equipped phones Smart Phones! They are not the same as x86 netbooks and the name helps recognize the difference.
It’s more confusing to ignore these differences than to gloss them over and treat basically different systems as all the same.
Fact is mini-computers existed before netbooks and even now the sub-notebook market is not entirely composed of netbooks.
Also the sub-notebook market is presently evolving. The traditional form factor may change and new terms will be needed to describe the next generation of systems.
I understand your point CyberGusa! But I think we can agree that taking a hard-line stance on what is or is not a netbook is a little bit silly — and likely to cause more problems than anything else. It is so trivial that I think it should be avoided. It really annoys me to see such a gung ho attitude on a position that, in my opinion, almost lacks logic.
I had always assumed that the term netbook began to stick due to the early builds shipping with Linux, etc. and not Windows. Whereas, if a shopper were told that he or she could only surf the net with their new ‘affordable’ purchase then said shopper would be least likely to go in expecting the “Windows XP” experience. And thus less likely to return the product out of disappointment. A new category was needed and thus the term netbook was born.
I also (and very respectfully) do not buy the low cost / low performance argument as defining what a netbook is. This was Intel’s doing — and they have gotten away with it up until about now. Now that the veil has been lifted we want to create new categories? Expecting ‘netbook standards’ to remain stagnate in the world of computing is just missing the point. The standards for netbooks came out of the gate changing and improving at a rapid pace. So, by this fuzzy logic, one could argue that the PS3 or the Xbox 360 should not be considered videogame systems because they are much more powerful than the Sega Genesis. They cost a lot more as well.
I personally do NOT expect next year’s netbooks to be low cost, small, and low performing! I expect them to be bigger, more powerful, and perhaps more costly initially. I also expect similar trends with all computing devices.
I’m convinced that what is under the hood of a ‘netbook’ will matter less and less in the very near future (esp. after Windows 8, ARM, etc.). The categorizing should be simplified, I think, to avoid confusion — even to the abandonment of corporate-specific fad terms such as CULVs. As this is not rocket science. The term UMPC, smartbook, etc. can all go the way of the dinosaur as far as I concerned. Turning unnecessary labelling into a chess match is not likely to win over new readers! They are not useful classifications with respect to the upcoming processing power from all of the major chip manufacturers.
There can be small netbooks and large netbooks. (perhaps 9-12 inches?), small laptops and big laptops (12-20 inches?), mini towers, etc. The 7-inch netbook has basically become extinct and would not be much more useful for typing than a 7-inch tablet anyway. ….let it go. And the 9-inch netbook is an endangered species. She might not make it either.
Intentionally referring to a next-generation 11.6-inch netbook as a “notebook” almost gives me vertigo. It’s not very professional!
What is funny is that you guys can’t see why! : ) It is even a direct insult to Asus, I’m feeling! I’d love to see Brad make a video describing the difference between a netbook and a notebook! And a sub-notebook. lol What is the difference, Brad? You’ve lost me!
A tablet, a slate, and a Pad? And an eBooker? What is the difference?
Well, since you ask, a Tablet PC covers Convertibles, Slates, and Hybrids. A Slate is only a tablet with no physical keyboard attached and is a more precise description of most the tablets in the market now. A Pad can be used instead of Tablet, and finally eReaders (no such thing as eBooker unless you are planning to invent a new term) are usually tablet, older models looked like PDA’s, like devices that are primarily used for reading and usually use a e-ink display and usually can’t do much more than it’s described function.
As for Asus, it’s no insult to them. They didn’t invent the term netbook. They only invented the Eee PC. So they, like other companies, just capitalized on the popularity of the term and continue to do so. Even if netbooks are no longer made they will continue to make Eee “something”…
Really, will Asus start calling the Eee Pad EP121 a netbook too just because it has Eee in its name? Obviously not, and in reality no one here is really being all that strict, rather the opposite because notebook is the more generic term, but there is a point when trying to stretch a term becomes silly as well.
You want strict, fact is companies like Dell have been penalized for not following the strict limitations imposed by Intel and MS for what could be called a netbook. But just because they now eased those standards and limitations doesn’t mean you can start naming whatever you want netbooks.
Especially since Intel imposed the standards, it’s questionable that anything but a Intel based system could be called by that name and the term has from the start been associated with their products. Sticking to those limitations is one of the reasons they refused to give Nvidia access to their DMI and forced the NG-ION to be interfaced by the limited NM10 PCI-E.
You have a point about Linux role in the history, as it was MS strong arming that got Windows to take over all netbooks. But there is a difference between wanting a different device to be called by the same name as a previous device and actually having that name properly apply to the new device.
What you think as logical thus clearly has flaws… What use is a term if it doesn’t actually describe the device it’s suppose to describe? How are consumers to know the difference between one device and another without constantly checking the specs? What of other products descriptions that better suite the device in question? Does a competing device have to be called by the same name as what it is competing against? Does using a name just because you want to keep the name really make sense when it no longer fits what it is describing? Does the device really even resemble what you want to call it?
These and other questions are what should be asked. The AMD Fusion line goes beyond just competing with netbooks and they have a range of performance available… really how much of the AMD Fusion line do you want to be called netbooks? Is your only criteria size?
All of which is more of a distraction to the accusations gman made that this site is somehow killing off the netbook name. When the fact is it’s the market effecting the lack of news for netbooks and neglects that the Zacate E-350 falls just as easily into the CULV side as the netbook side. It’s really in-between the two and should really get its own descriptive term.
CyberGusa, I’m only stating my opinion on the subject because others seem to be failing to do so.
My use of the term “eBooker” was none other than to be sarcastic. Would one argue that, with such redundant terminology, should the term “notebook” fall out of use? Because today’s laptops do more than just take notes? And of what use is the term ‘notebook’ anymore these days anyway? I’d prefer to refer to them only as laptops (because they are computers that literally sit on your lap!) and are not related at all to “books” or “taking notes”. Continual use of the term notebook to refer to laptops only helps to create confusion in a day where e-Book readers are the norm and are clearly a different product.
If you think about it… the term “netbook” makes much more sense — than any other available terminology that I am aware of — and is a word that is future-ready in its literal meaning. You guys should really consider the fact that a lot of people gained access to their ‘first’ real computer through netbooks! Albeit a first computer (about the size of a book) that came with plenty hours of battery life. And I’m sure that the majority of these people are oblivious to the restrictions cooked up by Intel and Co.! And, with the upcoming trend towards cloud computing, the term ‘internet book’ is bound to do more than just stick.
The question is not whether or not Asus would begin to call their Eee Pad EP121 a netbook — because they clearly refer to their own product as a tablet. The question is whether or not Brad/Liliputing would begin calling the Eee Pad a netbook without further consultation with anyone! Even Best Buy’s website, for example, states that netbooks have screen sizes less than 12.1″ for portability. Liliputing has its own definition which, in not just my opinion, is archaic.
I’ve always viewed netbooks as being baby laptops! Small, cute, amazing, and capable of surprising their parents with their computing capacity/capabilities.
And our siblings are growing! We should encourage their growth!
The vast majority of people do NOT at all associate netbooks with a “severely limited feature set” as Brad has stated here. Only us geeks made the association. Some continue to make the association today. The general public never did. A netbook implies maximum portability in a laptop that doesn’t come at a premium (as before when ultra-portable laptops unjustifiably costed thousands). They were amazing then and are amazing pieces of technology today!
I’d be hard pressed to call them limited.
This is both correct and wrong.
Yes, many people don’t pay attention and it’s mainly geeks that do pay attention to details but a large percentage of people today are geeks to some level. Especially those who actually buy these products.
So the idea that you think most people don’t associate netbooks with limited feature set has problems with facts like netbooks are actually designed to be limited by the very limitations and standards imposed by Intel and MS, which is the main reason netbooks have remained all but unchanged for over 2 years, and a large number of people have experienced this firsthand.
Whether people are geeks or not most people who have ever been interested in netbooks have already tried them and know their limitations.
Like another bit of history not being considered was the high return rates of netbooks when they first started. Lots of people got them for the wrong reasons. So by now even non-geeks should have some idea of what they are and if not they could always look it up, which they would anyway if they were looking to buy something they were not familiar with and that actually makes accurate descriptions more important for those who would not know better.
While the term Notebooks simply took over from Laptops, both really not describing the products properly but they are meant as generic terms and thus cover all such devices and like Tablets and Pads are pretty much interchangeable terms.
But like a Slate is a more specific form of Tablet, so too are Netbooks a more specific form of Notebooks! So is consistent! Meaning any product that doesn’t really fall into a specific category generally gets called by the generic term. But when you start to get specific you also have to get more accurate in the description. Like a Slate can never be a tablet with a physical keyboard attached to it no matter how much like a Slate the device may otherwise appear, especially when there are better terms like Convertibles or Hybrids that would better describe it then. Similarly the same logic applies to every other similar category like Netbooks versus CULV’s or UMPC’s.
So you either call them by the generic name or you call them by something that more specifically describes the product.
As for giving your opinion, you are entitled to them but whether you think it is correct does not mean the vast majority of people would actually agree with you!
And giving a opinion does not mean it can’t be challenged, after all we’re all entitled to our opinion but especially when the logic for that opinion in question is based on more opinion and not actual facts and more importantly if the results of giving that opinion results in unfair charges against someone else then morally it has to be challenged!
Remember gman started this by leveling accusations against Brad about his actions and you agreed with him!
Personally I can’t stand by while I see something I consider unfair happen and I’m a stickler for things actually making sense based on facts.
So while I can appreciate it is only your opinion, and that gman is the one who stated this and not you, but I can’t condone the results of these opinions given the context of the intended result without confronting those issuing them!
Just kidding. This is one of the awesomest reads in a tech site discussion thread I’ve seen in quite a while, good discussion, thanks.
I Cant wait, HD Notebooks with DX11 capable graphics, yet with battery life as good as a Netbook!
Did you ask if the on-die GPU would work with a discrete graphics solution? Also, would it be possible to have high speed graphic-card RAM specifically allocated for the GPU work?
AMD has previously stated Fusion will not prevent discrete graphic solutions, especially if you plan on putting in a AMD discrete card and for desktop application.
The present embedded graphics though do not support having dedicated RAM specifically for the embedded GPU and has to use shared memory instead.
This may change next year when they update the APU to Trinity and the Bobcats to Bulldozer cores. But details or skimpy right now and right now it’s only known that Intel’s Ivy Bridge update to Sandy Bridge will possibly offer dedicated memory for the GPU (may be limited to high end offerings).
So AMD may have the embedded graphical advantage this year but next year it might go to Intel if AMD doesn’t offer similar memory bandwidth enhancement.
It will be cheaper. I agree though, the only thing that really matters is the battery life comparison.
so far the difference between this and the 1215n is pretty negligible the GPU seems to be a little better by one point. For me this is going to come down to battery life.
So far it seems Zacate systems appear to have good battery run times and the HP DM1 at least has already shown better run times than the 1215N.
The graphical score Asus showed was only against the embedded Intel GMA, which of course would score very low. But even the NG-ION only edges out the Zacate, which is impressive considering the Zacate is using a embedded GPU and not a discrete graphics card with dedicated memory.
The limitations on the Zacate’s GPU though are less restricting than the NG-ION’s PCIe x1 lane limitation. So Zacate should be far more consistent in its graphical performance.
While the Bobcat cores do better than even the D525 in the 1215N and the out of order processing gives it a distinct advantage.
So against the 1215N you can give the Zacate both a clear CPU and power efficiency advantage and a possible graphical consistency advantage…
Comments are closed.