Acer is introducing a new notebook with a small screen and a relatively low price. The Acer Aspire V5-122 is a Windows 8 notebook with an 11.6 inch, 1366 x 768 pixel display and an AMD Temash processor. It’s expected to have a starting price of $450, which makes it one of the most affordable touchscreen notebooks around.

Acer Aspire V5-122

While the Acer product page for the Aspire V5-122 doesn’t provide many details about the laptop, French site MiniMachines is helping to fill in the blanks.

The notebook reportedly features an AMD A6-1450 “Temash” quad-core processor with Radeon HD 8280 graphics, 2GB of RAM, a 500GB hard drive, WiFi, Bluetooth, VGA, HDMI, USB 3.0, and gigabit Ethernet.

Acer’s notebook has a 3 cell battery and weighs about 3.3 pounds.

The Temash processor powering this notebook is a successor to the AMD Z-60 dual core chip AMD offers for tablets and hybrids. The new AMD A6-1450 is expected to offer twice the graphics performance and significantly more processing power than its predecessor. But it’s still a relatively low power chip… which helps explain the relatively low price tag of this notebook.

Asus also offers a low-cost 11.6 inch touchscreen notebook called the Vivobook X202E. That laptop has an Intel Core i3 processor, 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive and sells for as little as $449.

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212 replies on “Acer introduces 11.6 inch touchscreen notebook with AMD Temash chip”

  1. Shiny glare-producing fingerprint-magnet touch screen on a laptop. If you try to use the touch screen, the laptop tips over. Who designs this nonsense?

    1. You don’t have to press hard for a capacitive touch, this isn’t like the early resistive touch screens… Also, the system will be bottom heavy… Unlike hybrids that keep most of the system behind the screen.

      While, getting a touch screen on something affordable is still a novelty… Options like the Chromebook Pixel go for over $1600 and others aren’t much cheaper in general.

  2. Warning: JML found our once intelligent article comments: let the trolling continue!

  3. Glad AMD is winning more design wins. This is sure to sell like hotcakes. Who doesn’t want a powerful workstation in their hand? one that can rock multicpu workloads like Pro Tools, or video editing. GO AMD!

    1. Design wins ARE WORTHLESS!!!! They will NOT sell like hotcakes mainly because of M$ windows 8. x86 tablets failed to sell solely because of M$ windows 8. DIE AMD DIE!!! GO INTEL GO!!!!

      1. I thought the microsoft tablets failed to sell because either they used weak Atom processors or overpriced i5 processors. I think the Windows 8 tablets will do a lot better with these new powerful but low-power-usage inexpensive AMD chips with impressive graphics performance too.

        1. Wrong Windows 8 was solely responsible for the decrease in pc sales this year. Also AMD chips don’t have impressive GPU performance in the low end they use too much power.

          1. No, you really should stop spouting such misinformation. People have told you before that the dropping PC sales happened well before Windows 8 came out.

            Windows 8 just failed to change the trend! Big difference from causing it!

            Even Apple’s OSX continued to decline and they have nothing to do with Windows 8!

            While MS numbers on Windows on tablets actually went up after Windows 8 was released and despite everything Windows 8 is still doing better after six months than Chrome OS has done after 3 years and you don’t hear anyone spouting doom and gloom for them!

            Also, AMD APU’s are still better than what Nvidia offers for their Tegra line or any mobile GPU for that matter. They do have to develop more advance power management before they can expect to compete directly with mobile solutions but they will be able to get in to the niche between mobile and more portable systems.

            The dual core Temash for example can actually go into fan-less tablet designs. A first for AMD and at the very least shows they are making progress.

            While AMD continues to be cheaper than Intel’s higher end products and still hold the graphical lead for integrated graphics.

            So lets stop with the exaggerations and other nonsense!

          2. So much wrong in so few lines.

            AMD uses too much power!!! That may have been true in the past, but this is a 5W quad-core chip. There’s nothing out that to touch this at the moment.

            Also, compared with other low-end chips like Atom, the AMD chips have much MUCH more GPU power.

            Windows 8 was solely responsible. Have you any evidence for this?

  4. How about when it comes to Linux hardware support which is going to better?

  5. Lets see how much will this cost when release throughout Europe!

    Asus X201e can be had for 370$ at my part of the world, which, given its specs and size is very cheap, everything below 15″ over here is vastly overpriced, tablets included, so this new Acer is welcome addition, I hope it wont cost too much!

        1. Sure, you keep believing that, but back in the real world everybody else knows that competition is good for consumers.

          1. Expect that AMD isn’t competition not anymore anyways. A few years ago you could say that but now not even close.

          2. If that was true then it’ll be bad for consumers! Only through competition do products and options get really better… otherwise they stagnate and hardly change over time.

            Like prior to Intel placing the ATOM to compete with ARM they had it on a long 5 year product cycle that only recently ended… This compared to the rapid two year tic-toc cycle Intel keeps its higher end products under.

            The upcoming Bay Trail marks the transition of the ATOM from its original 5 year cycle to a new two year tic-toc cycle.

            So like AMD or not, consumers need the competition they provide to keep Intel on its toes… never mind producing products that Intel doesn’t bother to!

          3. I do agree its bad for consumers but its been like that for several years. Intel already has new competition in the form of ARM!!!!

          4. But ARM is only competing with Intel on the mobile side… Anything higher and that competition quickly drops to nil…

            It’ll be another two years at least before ARM can push higher and till then AMD is still needed to compete with Intel in the traditional PC market… less Intel forgets the desktop power users and PC gamers!

      1. Bots have better grammar and make more sense. I reckon he’s a paid shill, probably getting 50c per post to bash AMD, that’s why he doesn’t waste time with facts or arguments, he just makes his posts and moves on.

  6. This notebook SUCKS Intel IS BY FAR THE BETTER CHOICE!!!! AMD SUCKS!!!! Kaveri’s going to suck ass!!!!!

    1. Look at the paid Intel astroturfer.

      Paid to spread lies to scare people into buying an Intel chip.

      1. No but people should buy Intel there is NO REASON TO BUY AMD anymore!!! Intel/Nvidia IS THE WAY TO GO!!!!

        1. Except when I don’t have $2000 to waste on the same exact thing.

          You should know by now that Intel relies on cheating to win. They rig their own compiler (in a lot of benchmark tools) to purposely slow down on AMD chips.

          In your case, the lying actually works. Also, I have noticed that you write bad comments about AMD all across the internet 24/7. Either you are on the verge of death by insomnia or your account is shared with other paid Intel drones.

          You have a personal agenta to attack AMD when in reality, Intel is the one screwing you over. AMD may make a blunder every so often, but at least they don’t slap a new sticker on it and charge twice the price.

          In addition, a lot of the reason AMD is behind is because Intel paid off a bunch of companies to stop buying their chips. You should be angry at Intel. APUs are the future. I paid freaking $30 for mine and it plays 1920×1080 movies, runs cool, and uses only 40 Watts at full load.

          Intel graphics blow dick and you know it, you just don’t care when all those paychecks roll in.

          Intel pays for benchmarks, they rig their software to run worse on AMD’s chips (as proven above) and they pay PC makers to avoid AMD.

          Oh, you can also remove Intel’s sabotage from any software that is infected with it by flipping a simple binary switch. (Intel compiler patcher)

          1. It doesn’t change the fact that Intel chips ARE FASTER AND USE HALF THE POWER!!!! I have heard lots about Intel bribing companies to use their compiler but even so Intel has twice the IPC of ANY AMD CPU!!!! Intel also uses half the power!!!! Intel’s IGP’s ARE GETTING MUCH BETTER!!! Intel’s GT3e HAS NO EQUAL FROM AMD!!!!! Intel HD 5200 will crush AMD richland INTO THE GROUND!!!!!

          2. “Faster and use half the power”

            You mean 15% slower for the dollar and use 25% less power.

            You are either actually mentally handicapped or just paid to weasel out of every argument. I think you get a tip in your paycheck if you use fallacies. Boy, you’re going to be rich.

            (Richland’s GPU according to Intel and AMD people at CES will be 2x the speed of Intel HD 5200)

          3. Wrong Intel is price competitive. Intel’s i5-2500k beats out EVERYTHING AMD HAS right now!!! Also what are you smoking Intel haswell’s IGP is much faster than AMD richland’s IGP. Intel HD 5200 is almost equal to Nvidia’s GT650M AMD has no IGP’s like that unless they released Kaveri.

          4. What are you smoking? That GT650m comparison had the games running on low and locked at 60fps. They were identical because neither was doing any work.

            You just wait. Richland will destroy Intel, just like past APUs have.

            I understand that it makes you angry when AMD wins, so I’ll just leave you alone when Richland and Kaveri arrive.

          5. AMD is NOT winning I’m sorry. Kaveri IS GOING TO SUCK!!! It will be disappointing to say the least. AMD loves to hype their crappy chips into oblivion but then NEVER delivers. Kaveri’s IGP WILL ONLY BE 30% faster and that’s NOT even enough to tie it with Intel’s ALMIGHTY GT3e with eDRAM!!!

          6. Kaveri is not due out till the end of the year, so how are you able to look into the future to see how it will perform?

            Kaveri is going to use GDDR5 Ram which has twice the bandwidth of DDR3 and GPUs perform a lot better when they have good memory bandwidth.

          7. Its still not going to be good enough even if Kaveri manages to tie Intel’s Iris Graphics if that all AMD can do they already lost. IF AMD lost the one thing that made them stand out then Intel WINS hands down because Intel Wins in EVERY ASPECT!!!!

          8. Kaveri, by all indications will be well ahead of Iris in performance.
            “Every Aspect” except the most important, Price.

  7. AMD IS DEAD!!!! AMD is clinging on to life right about now they are desperate and its sad.

    1. Lol! you contradicted yourself with consecutive sentences. If they are dead then how can they be clinging to life. It’s either one or the other.

        1. Again, you’re very hard to understand, and it’s not just your problem with over-use of capital letters. Did you know that using all caps makes what you write harder to read?

          So what you meant to say was:
          “AMD will die if they slip up again.”
          You see what I did there, no caps, just a single sentence instead of using multiple sentences. (But then again you’re probably getting paid by the word for your astro-turfing).

          So, in summary, you think AMD will be perfectly fine if they don’t commit any serious blunders, so that’s pretty much like any company then isn’t it.

          1. Yes AMD will if they slip up again and they will very soon. No not true AMD already has one foot in the grave. The fact that they can’t deliver a game changer is giving AMD a lot of trouble and NO Kaveri will NOT be a game changer ITS TOO WEAK!!!! Intel is almost doubling IGP performance every year while AMD only improves by about 30% each year INTEL HAS caught UP as of this YEAR!!!!!

          2. so AMD are in fact ALIVE then, because they would have to alive in order to have the ability to slip up.

            So you don’t consider their 1Ghz 5Watt quad core to be a game changer?
            Also, how would you know that Kaveri, which isn’t due out for at least 7 months, is too weak? Do you claim to be able to look into the future now?

          3. No because it uses 14 watts with a 6 watt mode. I know Kaveri Won’t good enough because of many reason first being that AMD always uses much more power than any Intel chip. Second Kaveri’s IGP won’t improve enough to beat Intel Iris. Third Kaveri will still use much more power than Intel’s 65 watt chips with GT3e. Fourth AMD has always over-hyped and under-delivered and that hasn’t changed. Fifth AMD’s CPU performance won’t be anywhere NEAR good enough even if they improve the IPC by 30% it won’t be enough to counter Intel. Sixth AMD relies WAY too much on MOAR CORES and high clock speeds!!!!

          4. So intel have a 1Ghz 5.9W quad-core going cheap as well then… no, I didn’t think so.

            Your arguments about Kaveri start falling down like a house of cards. How do you know that it won’t beat Iris in GPU performance, what are you basing this on?

  8. I am still looking for one with that size display, and price, that also has a backlit keyboard. It seems like you have to spend a bunch to get one.

  9. So both the Intel and AMD versions costs the same plus the Intel one has twice as much RAM?

    If I’m a non-gamer then how does the i3 compare with the A6-1450?

    1. The quad core a6 will probably be about equal in CPU tasks and will certainly be better with graphics(won’t matter much for you). The a6 is rumored to have a sub 15W TDP and the i3 has a 17W TDP. This means that the a6 temash will also be more power efficient. This may not seem like much but the a6 is also a full SOC meaning other components are integrated. This means further energy savings. Personally I would go a6 temash. It will also be better for multitasking(quad core)

        1. I’m pretty sure the a6 is better then the ivy bridge i3 in every scenario right now.

          1. This is misinformed. You’re probably referring to this comparison:


            The problem is, that’s going against this part:


            While you’re making comparisons against this 17W Core-i3 Ivy Bridge part:


            Per-clock performance in Cinebench is about 7.7% better going from SB to IB ( So the 17W 1.8GHz IB i3 will perform about 38.5% better than the 17W 1.4GHz SB i3 AMD compared against.

            And they only gained parity for a heavily threaded test, a best case scenario for the 4C Temash vs 2C/4T i3. In the real world they’ll be behind in a lot of other tests.

          2. And what is the cost difference? I’m sure it will cost much more then 40%. In addition to the much lower power consumption and better GPU

          3. Wrong AMD uses MORE power than Intel products of the same class. AMD is far slower than Intel. IPC matters to me even if some programs use an Intel compiler the fact is for games and emulation INTEL IS KING AMD CAN’T TOUCH INTEL!!!!

          4. The i3 version linked to in this article costs the same amount and uses the processor I referred to.

          5. No my point is that any i3 will cost much more then temash. They don’t compete, atom competes with temash

          6. We don’t actually know what Temash will cost, just in this case a comparable product with an IB i3 (and more RAM) costs the same amount. But I thought your point was was the IB i3 had no advantages…

          7. Yeah we don’t know what temash will cost, but its supposed to be a tablet chip. Its predecessor, the z-60 was priced around the same as the atom. Picking the ivy bridge i3 over the temash quad core would be a poor choice because of power consumption, graphics and normally price. But its more like comparing apples to oranges. i3 will compete with kaveri/kabini, not temash

        2. Don’t assume too much on graphical performance alone.

          Not everything graphical actually takes full advantage of the GPU…

          Photoshop for example is still heavily reliant on CPU performance, some things have become graphically accelerated but the Filters, Plug-ins, etc are still run by the CPU!

      1. It almost certainly will not be equal. Richland products won’t be equal, they’ll be more equal, but they’ll be head to head against Haswell instead of Ivy. Temesh, especially at 1ghz will not even be in the same realm, I’m sorry. AMD has a very sweet chip here, it’s nice, it’s got a great blend of features and in my mind the GPU will cover a LOT of the deficiencies of this chip. But don’t lie, in single threaded performance this thing won’t be in the same league, and finding software that runs more efficiently on all 4 cores more than on Ivy with 2 actual and 2 virtual cores is going to be a cherry picking contest.

        Also a 2w TDP difference will also probably be negligible since the rest of the component choices will total more than that which will ultimately determine how well the system lasts.

        Temesh is nice. AMD finally showed up to fight last year’s fight. The problem is that it’s 2013 not 2012, and in a few short months the performance crown will ship again.

        I could be wrong We’ll see once the benchmarks come out. But my expectation is that this processor will be thoroughly outclassed by anything but Celeron’s, Atoms, and other CPU’s Intel intentionally crippled, which it will in turn dominate… Unless you’re looking to do some light weight gaming, in which case this thing is the one to get.

        1. You are very misinformed. Read the articles on temash and it shows that quad core temash equals 17w i3 CPU performance. It will easily beat it in GPU performance, no contest. Now for TDP. At 1Ghz temash is a sub 10W chip, at 1.4Ghz it is a 12-15W chip. Let’s also not forget that this is an SOC. As it integrates more functions onto the chip it further reduces power consumption. Price/performance and performance per watt it is very competitive. Jaguar cores are not piledriver(bulldozer) cores. They are not crippled in single thread performance. Do some research into the chip because from what’s out there it will certainly beat this years i3 CPUs at a lower TDP and with much better GPU performance. Also haswell will compete with kavari not Richland. Kavari will be a fully HSA compliant APU with GCN GPU. It is rumored to be >50% more powerful than Richland

          1. Wrong IPC matters you DUMB twit!!!! Quad core Temash WILL NOT match a dual core i3 EVER!!!! GCN AND HSA ARE WORTHLESS!!!!! 50% more powerful than richland THEN AMD IS DOOMED!!!! 50% IS NOT ENOUGH when Intel is doubling their IGP performance every year!!!!

          2. JML please, please tell me who pays you to troll every AMD article all day long?

          3. No one I don’t like where AMD is going and they going to DIE!!!! AMD is going the wrong path and thus they HAVE SEALED THEIR FATE!!! Actually I will give you a hint ARM will be AMD’s undoing!!!!!

          4. I wish but none of the above. I am serious ARM will be AMD’s undoing!!!

          5. Well I think you’re wrong, and so does probably everyone else in these comments, good luck with that

          6. Of course everyone thinks I am wrong BUT I AM NOT!!! Think about really hard you’ll find out why ARM is AMD’s downfall!!!!!!

          7. Wow a real source! That is only about amd’s sea micro. How will this kill them?

          8. You didn’t read the whole thing did you? First AMD has no clue what they are sell or to what market. Second in x86 AMD only has ONE company to compete with Intel but all of suddenly they go ARM they have a dozen fast and nimble competitors to deal with. Third AMD is only going to come with Vanilla ARMv8 Cores while everyone else’s core will be better in power consumption, speed or how about both.

          9. Your opinion on ARM servers is understandable for you, what I am saying is that servers make up a small portion of AMD’s revenue. In addition they are not ditching x86 or AMD64. They are simply adding arm to their existing product lines. It is not significant enough to be their downfall

          10. This article was disproved, they haven’t killed off those things, do another search and you’ll see they are on schedule

          11. I really appreciate your links! I don’t think were on the same page with AMD’s investment in arm.
            1) amd is not implementing arm in its big markets(PCs, tablets or gaming)
            2) AMDs investment in arm is solely through seamicro, not any other part of their business
            3) AMD is not implementing arm instead of x86, they still have x86 servers.

          12. Wrong on all points. Yes AMD is still going to have x86 but AMD is pinning its survival on ARM Soc’s not just in servers but in tablets too. They won’t be in gaming you’re right about that. Wrong AMD has recently indirectly spoke of ARM tablets because they use less power than AMD x86 SoC’s. AMD’s going to lose their gambit and they will die as simple as that.

          13. I have read this article before. It simply states that amd may release an arm apu for integrated devices like cars and casino machines, not tablets

          14. True but AMD will do it because they think ARM is the future for them and they couldn’t be anymore wrong.

          15. You’re just assuming that and I disagree, I believe if they thought that then they would not be pushing all their x86 CPUs so aggressively

          16. Oh Sorry but AMD is going to try to do both x86 and ARM and they ARE GOING TO FAIL MISERABLY because they are spread too thin.

        2. TDP difference is larger than 2W… Temash is AMD’s first SoC and while not ready to compete head to head with mobile devices it does get pretty close.

          The dual core Temash can even go fan-less, at about 3.6W Max TDP, and will be meant for tablets.

          While the quad core version actually supports a dynamic range of TDP… Though, it can’t go fan-less like the dual core, it’ll still be meant mainly for tablets. So has a tablet mode of operation that’s around 5.9W max TDP, and a Turbo Mode when docked with extra cooling and extra battery power to jump to 14W max TDP.

          This may be trickier in a laptop, since there’s no obvious tablet mode, but it should still be possible to scale power consumption as needed and that should provide noticeable boost in run times.

          Mind that present Ivy Bridge chips can only idle down to about 3W… Haswell will vastly improve that as it can idle down to just below 100mw (over 30 times lower) but until Haswell comes out then Temash has a power efficiency advantage compared to the present Ivy Bridge solutions.

          Also, the Bay Trail ATOM update won’t start coming out till about the end of the year on through till next year. So only Clover Trail will be able to provide better run times for now but significantly less performance.

          While a Core i3 Ivy Bridge may provide noticeably better performance, especially because as you pointed out most software isn’t optimized to make the most use of multiple cores, but not as good power efficiency…

          Leaving AMD with a interesting niche but it could gain them some market share while people wait for Intel’s next gen products.

          1. I mainly agree with your points, thanks for the exact TDP numbers! The Ivy Bridge i3 actually doesn’t have a performance advantage over temash according to early benchmarks. Temash will probably not compete with haswell in any case, with haswell being a 10W+ TDP chip. But not just that, Haswell will be much more expensive. It will cost probably 2-3 times for for a ULV i3 and probably around 5 times more for a ULV i5. Temash will compete very well with bay trail/valleyview atom chips with much better graphics and will be launched earlier. Kavari will compete with haswell and should actually be quite strong with HSA and GCN graphics.

          2. Kaveri WILL SUCK OUT LOUD!!!!! High power consumption coupled with a mediocre IGP and low IPC means that Intel HASWELL WILL DESTROY IT AND THEN Haswell will DESTROY AMD AHAHAHAH!!!!! Actually AMD APU cost just as much as Intel’s CPU’s. AMD IS NO LONGER THE VALUE company they want to make money badly BUT FAILING BADLY AS WELL!!!! HSA and GCN IS WORTHLESS!!!!!!

          3. Ah JML your trolling make me laugh so hard, AMD probably pays you to do this so you make Intel look retarded :p

          4. Nope sorry AMD IS FINISHED!!!! Between the many mistakes AMD has made and their SHITTY CARDS AND DRIVERS YEAH THEY NEED TO DIE NOW!!!!!

          5. AMD makes great windows drivers, really good graphics cards, and without them Intel and Nvidia would charge consumers a lot more

          6. Wrong my old AMD radeon 5570 SUCKS ASS!!!!! Maybe but that’s already happened for the most part. AMD is also charging high prices.

          7. get a new graphics card then and stop complaining, you get what you pay for. If you think AMD charge high prices then get a nvidia card…. wait, they charge high prices too…

          8. Actually, the performance is only close when the Temash is in the 14W Turbo Mode… So it’ll be a trade off for better battery life or max performance…

            Mind that the benchmarks don’t really represent real life performance and the point that software doesn’t yet make full advantage of multiple cores, especially more than two, will probably hold it back… depending on what it’s being used for…

            You are correct about the price difference, though Haswell will dip lower than Ivy Bridge… thanks in part to them moving the mobile version towards a more SoC like design… Specifically MCM… It helps reduce cost and improve power efficiency… but will still be multiple times the price of Temash.

            But it’ll be Kaveri, which will replace Trinity, that’ll compete with Haswell anyway… but won’t be as power efficient as Temash or even Kabini…

            So basically not much is changing between AMD and Intel… AMD will rely on lower cost and better graphical performance and Intel will generally have either a CPU advantage and/or power efficiency advantage…

            Though Bay Trail should make it harder with the price point competing with the as low as they go ARM SoCs… Clover Trail is already pretty close to ARM SoC pricing and Intel says Bay Trail will either be similar or even lower priced…

            But as pointed out before AMD isn’t quite ready to go head to head on the mobile side of the market… though, keeping between both ranges may provide them a better market than directly competing… or at least help buy them time until they can compete directly…

          9. Like the analysis! I do believe stuff is changing though and the gap is closing. Temash will compete with clover trail for the first part of its life span and should easily be better then it. We don’t know too much about bay trail/valleyview yet so I can’t say anything. However haswell vs steamroller/kavari is going to be big for amd. HSA will make programming easier for AMD APUs and will greatly improve performance. Early benchmarks of haswell are showing 5-10% CPU performance increase. Steamroller should bring ~30% for amd. In addition graphics will be immensely increased with GCN architecture. Will it catch Intel? Maybe not, but it will certainly close the gap a fair bit

          10. Well, part of the problem for AMD is they no longer have their own foundry… They broke ties with Global Foundries in order to ensure they could get enough chip yields by combining orders to multiple foundries.

            Mind the problems moving to 28nm and the delays it caused was a good part of the motivation of the move…

            Problem is such delays effected all of the ARM Foundries… Intel has a distinct advantage when it comes to how quickly they advance their FAB.

            Sure, the FAB size may only be about a year difference but the technology that goes into the FAB has a 3-4 year gap in Intel’s favor.

            HKMG for example was implemented by Intel with their 45nm FAB but it took ARM till 32nm/28nm before they did the same a few years later.

            Similarly, Intel got their Multi-Gate Transistor first with the introduction of their Tri-Gate Transistors with the 22nm FAB… While ARM isn’t expected to fully deploy their own FinFET until they hit the 16/14nm FAB or about two more years from now.

            So it’s not just a matter of architecture and FAB size to consider…

            Basically, it’ll get progressively harder and more expensive to push to each new FAB advance and as long as Intel holds their lead then they got more leeway to work with and can avoid issues like delays more.

            Mind that the delays caused by the move to 28nm is why AMD canceled some of the original APU’s they had planned before the delays forced them to re-prioritize.

            You are right that Haswell isn’t expected to improve much for CPU performance but it’s focusing on becoming a more mobile solution with vastly better power efficiency and they are improving their GMA performance enough that Haswell can provide the same performance as 17W Ivy Bridge but operate at below 8W while doing so or operate at the same power but at much higher performance.

            So it’ll at least further strengthen the graphical gains Intel made with the Ivy Bridge GMA HD4000, which pretty much marked the first time Intel started providing decent integrated graphical performance.

            While it’s the next advancement after Haswell that Intel planned for the CPU performance improvement anyway.

          11. I disagree with you that there’s a 3-4 year difference in process technology, HKMG isn’t that important. In any case arm/AMD are squeezing more out of old processes compared with Intel. Intel keeps using die shrinks to improve their products. I do agree it makes it harder for AMD because theyre fabless but since they bought out their contract from GloFlo they are not longer tied to their ridiculous demands. 28nm Jaguar cores(temash and kabini) will both be built using the 28nm TSCM process. Also Intel classes their process differently then other foundries. Intel’s 22nm is the equivalent to about 26nm from other foundries because of finFET. 14nm will be the same. On the other hand HSA is supposed to make die shrinks less needed for amd. Intel can only shrink the die so much while HSA will be revolutionary for amd

          12. No, the HKMG was just an example and they’re all important…

            FAB efficiency help determine how hard or easily they can produce chips… Differences in adopting new technology not only results in lost time but advances in said technology, like by the time ARM started using HKMG, Intel was already on its second gen version…

            Meaning it was easier for them to use the technology and could apply it with reduced risks compared to when they first introduced it.

            While this also effects other things like factoring things like production yields and whether the quality is good enough for higher clock speeds to be standardized.

            Like one of the reasons why Intel quickly opted to produce a 2GHz version of Medfield was because their FAB yields were better than expected and that gave them the overhead to push the limits of the chip higher than originally considered.

            Thus establishing the use of technology before others gives them more time to perfect the technology for better results.

            Along with other factors like supported number of nodes, and variations they can support at any one time help with how flexible and productive the foundry can be…

            While technologies like Tri-Gate Transistors are extremely important mile stones for dealing with known problems… In this case the ever increasing problem of power leakage as going smaller just increases that issue, but multi-gate technology helps address that problem.

            And of course it effects consumers bottom line on how much these chips will cost us once all is said and done and whether we will see little or a lot of delay in the roll out.

            Pretty much all in the industry agree that Intel has a clear advantage as far as the FAB goes. Only companies like Samsung come close to that kind of capacity and resources it provides them.

            TSMC also reported that due to the problems they had with the transition to 28nm that they’re doing things like reducing the number of node variations they will support as they move to 20nm and smaller and may even skip a size shrink to help reduce costs.

            So the limits of the foundries are a definite factor to keep in mind…

            Mind also that using the same foundries as ARM means they have to compete with them to complete their orders!

            Consider for example that Apple can easily buy out the foundry capacity and that can easily effect all other companies that depend on those foundries, like AMD…

            Like one of the reasons why Ultrabooks started out so expensive was because Apple had already monopolized most resources like aluminum lathe machines and many companies had to invest in developing such resources from scratch.

            While I don’t believe HSA will be that revolutionary as it’s not exclusive to just AMD and there are limits to it just like with the FAB shrinking… So will eventually reach diminishing returns for either.

            Besides, it takes time… Like Nvidia has been pushing CUDA for years with little market gain despite its potential.

            Regardless, we’ll know for certain once Intel goes 14nm as that’s when they’re suppose to bring out the real improvements and then we can compare…

          13. First off HKMG is not even used in Intel’s “core” processors. However it would be stupid to not agree Intel doesn’t have a process advantage. I also agree that AMD probably should have kept GloFlo. The 14nm broadwell is simply a die shrink, it will have little effect on performance. Is you think a simple die shrink is more important than HSA you are mistaken. I’d like to see a link to prove that TSCM is having problems because I haven’t seen it. We may not agree, but I do believe that steamroller, kabini, kavari and temash will make AMD become a true competitor once more

          14. For links, they’re pretty easy to find because there have been numerous reports throughout the year…




            And, no, HKMG was used in Intel Core series since Sandy Bridge… While High-k metal gate didn’t go away when they went to Tri-Gate Transistors with Ivy Bridge either.

            And no, Broadwell won’t be just a die shrink! First of all Broadwell will have the CPU cores, the GPU (graphics processing unit) and the PCH on all one chip… Haswell only begins the process with a MCM design but Broadwell pushes it towards a true SoC.

            Meaning it will allow over 90 percent of the system’s I/O to be routed to the processor socket, including memory, PCI-Express, SATA, USB, etc.

            Besides, you’re forgetting the second half of that 14nm release is Skylake… So it includes the full Tic-Toc cycle for the 14nm FAB!

            While Intel’s 14nm FAB will scale both the front end as well as the back-end to achieve the traditional scaling benefits (primarily cost/die reduction).

            Versus say TSMC’s 16nm FAB, which will actually be using the same back end as its 20nm process, but with 16nm FinFETs on the front end… Meaning that while performance and power will improve from the 20nm process, the scaling benefits won’t be there.

            As it is, actual high production of 20nm for TSMC won’t really happen until 2014 and the 16/20nm can take till 2015-16 before hitting full production… not to be confused when they first start production…

            While I don’t disagree that AMD’s 28nm rollout will help them but there is question whether it’s enough in the long run and where they will go from there as competition will only get more intense going forward.

            Mind that Intel plans to push both Broadwell and Airmount (ATOM) for 14nm for 2014….

          15. In other words broadwell will be a near-soc class processor. Same thing with temash right now. Broadwell is simply a die shrink of haswell, like ivy bridge was of sandy bridge. That’s simply how Intel’s tick-tock works. Thanks for the links though, I do believe amd will be able to work around them however, the 28nm is not a problem I do believe, 20nm could easily move back to GloFlo, and steamroller is still built with GloFlo 28nm. I’m not sure about airmount for 2014 though, baytrail is only projected for late 2013, early 2014. Temash will certainly be released before it. Intel also use finFET, just like TSCM. HSA is supposed to reduce the need for process shrinks even further. While it is not exclusive, intel(stupidly) did not want to be a part of it, giving AMD a possible opportunity.

          16. The 28nm was a problem, it’s why they are late getting their 28nm products out… original road map had them out already by over six months!

            AMD had to cancel two products they originally had planned because of the change in schedule and so we’ve had little from AMD over the past year and are still waiting on Temash and Kabini to come out in any actual products.

            So I wouldn’t ignore how such delays can effect them… timing can be everything in the business they’re in and advantages can be very fleeting unless capitalized on within small windows of opportunity!

            And no, as they get progressively ever smaller they have to improve their technology to move forward. So more than a simple die shrink…

            Architecturally as well because a SoC requires integration of design and not simply putting everything on the same die…

            While Temash doesn’t have things like advance S0i Power Management, like Intel is already implementing in Haswell. So Intel is applying their mobile technology to their entire processor line… While AMD still needs to do more than create a low powered SoC to truly compete head to head in the mobile space.

            So AMD’s next step will be very important going forward and they need to do better than the ARM system makers that will also be drawing on the same resources as they are…

            It does help that Nvidia is taking a long time to adapt their GPU technology for mobile usage and that has caused their Tegra series to fall behind compared to other ARM graphical solutions.

            So it’s possible AMD can shine there, but power efficiency is still something they really need to work on yet…

            While for Intel, don’t assume too much from what they say. They have a habit of saying something and then coming up with a solution afterward without warning… There FAB advance also means they are very flexible after all!

            And since they have planned FABs down to 5nm… They got time as well to reconsider… While there are possible down sides to HSA… So it’s not a sure thing either, though it’s a option that should still help AMD for now.

            But regardless, I think we both hope AMD can continue to be successful… Competition is better for the consumers after all!

      2. Wrong AMD uses more power and has half the CPU performance. DIE AMD DIE!!!!!

        1. maybe that used to be the case, but this is a 5W quad-core chip that has good graphics. There is no other x86 chip to compare with this one.

          1. AMD DOES NOT HAVE SUCH A CHIP NOR WILL THEY EVER HAVE IT!!!! Stop talking out you’re ass AMD doesn’t make that kind of chip not even for tablets. Good Graphics my ASS ARM will surpass it in all aspects in the next gen.

          2. You are obviously ignoring any obvious evidence to refute your wild assertions, so here you go again:


            AMD does indeed have a sub 6Watt quad core chip. And it will have decent graphics.

            It shouldn’t be so hard for you to believe. AMD’s previous generation of APUs included the Z-60. This was a 4.5Watt dual-core chip that ran at 1Ghz. Those old chips were fabbed at the 40nm process node, these new chips on the other hand are fabbed at 28nm. That’s a big improvement.

            So, along with the extra 2 CPU cores, AMD have also improved the graphics in the new chips which should also be about twice as powerful, that will keep it ahead of the graphics of any Atom chip for the next year or so at least.

            Your ARM comment is just your attempt to change the topic (I did say x86 in my comment) because you are losing the argument…. yet again

          3. Agree with you. You have to understand that this clown JML trolls every AMD article he finds, he loses every argument because he is always wrong. When he loses he uses caps and says AMD must die every two seconds

          4. I am NOT wrong you AMD FANBOI’S like Apple fanboi’s can’t see facts and can’t be reasoned with!!! AMD WILL DIE!!!!!

          5. Nope, AMD is doing much better these days and have some nice new chips lined up.

          6. Nope my ARM comment IS NO attempt to change topics Sorry. AMD will have improved IGP’s but IT way too slow at about 120 GFLOPS yes that’s 50% more what AMD’s SUCKY HD6320 puts out. In the next gen ARM SoC’s GPU’s will EASILY outperform IT WHILE USING FAR LESS POWER!!! Sorry NO IT WON’T and IT WILL BE A POWER HOG AMD chips ALWAYS ARE!!!

          7. AMD have a 5W 1Ghz x86 Quad core with much better graphics than Atom and better then all but the best ARM chips.

            AMD chips might have hogged power in the past but this new line of chips has changed that, I know you’re a AMD-hater, but even you will have to accept that the world has changed.

          8. AMD has a 1ghz quad core that is actually a 14 watt CHIP not a 5 or 6 watt one so it doesn’t count. Nope AMD hasn’t changed that.

          9. It’s a dual-mode chip. It’s 5.9 watts running on battery power at 1Ghz and 14 watts running on mains power @ 1.4 Ghz.
            I know, this is a difficult new concept, it will take a while before people understand.

      3. The quad core Temash will actually be about 5.9W… hmm, I mentioned that before… Sorry, going over previous topics… so forgive any repeating of information…

        Unless they disable the lower power mode for laptops using the A6, then it should prove more power efficient overall than the present Ivy Bridge Core i-Series processors.

        However, one thing Jml does have correct is that AMD has nothing for advance power management like the S0i Power Management that Intel already has for their ATOM SoCs and will be pushing for Haswell.

        So AMD can achieve really low normal operational power levels but can’t yet achieve extremely low power states needed for features like always connected standby, instant on, and other similar extremely low power states and maximize power savings when the system is idling.

        Though, AMD will be pushing options like the ability to shut off individual cores when performance is not needed and that’s partly how they are achieving the lower normal operational power levels.

        AMD is also pushing HSA and other technology that may give them a good boost in performance without needing another FAB advance… But these are still early in development and full benefits aren’t likely to show this early.

        Developers still need to better optimize software to make better use of multiple cores, especially more than two… So benefits of quad may vary for now…

        While Bay Trail will definitely offer up to quad cores as well… So make of that what you will…

        1. AMD will have all those things you mentioned at the bottom, I don’t know where you are getting that from. One of the new features in temash is better low power states. It stated on the Acer website that it was a 1Ghz chip with a 1.4Ghz turbo. This means it is a 5.9W TDP with turbo to 14W TDP. But remember that TDP doesn’t measure power consumption, only heat. Most of the time the CPU doesn’t come close to using max power with turbo or without. As for HSA many people are pegging it to be revolutionary, it is supposed to be very easy to program for as well, though I am not a programmer and do not know. Devs will probably opt in, it’ll make their programs work much better. Microsoft is also said to be a silent partner to HSA so they should optimize windows for it.

          1. No, unfortunately Temash has nothing equivalent to the S0i power management that Intel has developed to compete with ARM. So it can’t operate at low mw power states.

            Only the S3 suspend state goes that low for Temash… though otherwise you are right that they’ve improved power efficiency… just not enough yet to directly compete with mobile ARM and ATOM SoCs for maximum run times.

            While HSA has always had a lot of potential but making it a reality will be harder than it sounds. They’ve been developing their APUs for awhile now and performance gains has consistently been below original expectations with each advancement.

            Mind, I pointed out Nvidia’s CUDA because it had many of the same potential but after several years there’s hardly anyone using it.

            AMD’s HSA will see better adoption but it’s not a game changer yet…

          2. If SOI is so great why isn’t pile driver/bulldozer more power efficient? SOI isn’t that important that’s why. The reason the APUs haven’t been as revolutionary is because they haven’t had HSA! Kavari is the first HSA complient APU

          3. Why? Because neither has advance S0i power management states!

            Before Intel decided to compete with ARM no x86 had really much better than advance S3 suspend state… Now Intel is pushing the advance mobile range power states they developed for the ATOM SoCs that support features like always connected standby and instant on to their entire lineup, starting with Haswell!

            Really, idling to watt levels is nothing compared to being able to idle to milliwatt levels.

            Actual idle state for Temash, not suspend, is suppose to be a around 1.2W (for the lower powered dual core version)… Mind even Haswell can idle down to just below 100mw or over 10 times lower!

            Intel and ARM can power sip to extremely low power levels and still do work… AMD on the other hand can only go that low while suspended and can’t do any work in that state.

            AMD needs to fix that disparity if they really want to compete head to head in the mobile market… Otherwise they’re Still where Intel was back before they re-optimized the ATOM to compete directly with ARM.

            Fairly low power states while idling is a good improvement, Ivy Bridge for example can only idle down to about 3W, along with the ability to turn off unneeded cores with clock gating and advance CC6 states, but they need to go a lot lower to really offer something that can go into anything smaller than a large tablet.

            Really, a Bay Trail quad can still go fan-less and fit into thin and light mobile tablets and even go into Smart Phones.

            While the only fan-less option Temash has is the lower powered dual core version… The quad core gives up on being fan-less and is why they’re pushing the Turbo Mode because if they can’t compete fully on power efficiency then they’re go the opposite way and offer more performance.

            Thus why they are clearly placing Temash between what Intel ATOM and Intel’s higher end processors will offer…


          4. Are you kidding me? Hondo has an idle state of 0.08W! Temash is meant to bring more low power states as well! In any case low power states have no effect on TDP, TDP is the max thermal output of the chip. Hondo also has connected standby and so will temash. Speaking of SOI I looked it up because I wasn’t sure, Haswell, Ivy Bridge and clovertrail DO NOT EVEN USE SOI! Clovertrail uses HKMG while Ivy Bridge uses Tri-Gate transistor technology. haswell uses finFET technology. THEY DO NOT USE SOI

          5. No, Hondo does not have a idle state of 0.08W… that’s only the S3 suspend state, which means it’s doing nothing and only pretty much just keeping power to memory, with everything else off, so it can be awakened quickly.

            Hondo’s actual idle state is 2.8W, 3.89W for browsing, and 4.79W for playing HD video!

            As for S0i. it’s S-(the number zero)-i and not S-O-i… look up “S0ix”… it’s for power states and not fabrication/manufacturing!

            And no, neither Hondo or Temash will have connected standby… that’s the problem!

          6. Im sorry, you’re right about the s3 state, however for the APU the idle is 0.75W. The numbers you are quoting are for the entire system! In addition we know nothing about temash’s power states, except that they will be much better then Hondo.

          7. No, Temash power states have already been revealed and they’re not promoting always connected standby or power savings of that nature.

            And no, counting the idle state of just one component gives no relevance for comparison…

            Besides, both Intel ATOM and Temash are now SoCs… so you’re going to have to factor all chipsets combined!

            Also, I wasn’t quoting the whole system for Hondo… Total system power usage is always much higher. LCD alone can consume 2.5W, even at lowest brightness setting, for example.

            Besides, Hondo averages 2W and has a higher max power consumption than Intel’s Clover Trail.

            Really, Hondo is rated as a 4.5W max TDP part and Clover Trail is rated at 1.7W max TDP part and their run times reflect this as the typical Clover Trail tablet can provide over 7-10 hours of usage but the Hondo tablet isn’t rated for much more than 5-7 hours. (neither counting extended battery capacity from docks, etc)

            Temash will also have a higher max power consumption, going higher than Hondo for the quad core, and it definitely won’t be power sipping in the Turbo Mode.

            While Bay Trail improves power efficiency compared to Clover Trail, allowing similar battery life despite the performance increase!

            Really, I was disappointed too when I learned about Temash power efficiency limits. Having first heard it was going to be a SoC I had hoped they’d manage to achieve similar mobile SoC power efficiency but unfortunately that isn’t yet the case.

            They’ve made improvements but mainly to performance and that places them pretty much where they had been with Brazos/Fusion vs ATOMs on netbooks.

            AMD will have the graphical and maybe also the CPU performance advantage but it looks like for now Intel and ARM will offer the better battery life and probably lower costs because it’s easier for them to go fan-less, etc.

            Scroll down and you will see the APU uses only 0.75W in idle. Yes the quad core version of temash has a higher TDP then the dual core Hondo. As for cost I don’t think you are correct. AMD always prices their products extremely competitively. I’m quite sure that systems using temash will be priced to compete with Intel atom and will do so very well. Bay trail will most certainly be launched after temash which bodes extremely well for AMD. In reality I believe temash is(and will be) a more rounded chip then either clovertrail or bay trail. Tablets with low end processors are mainly for media consumption and for everyday tasks. In multimedia temash excels past atom. AMD has a very good chance to get OEMS on board because of its launch before Bay Trail. This was the biggest problem with the Z-60.

          9. “Scroll down and you will see the APU uses only 0.75W in idle.”

            And again that’s not relevant, SoCs include the entire chipset and not just the APU!

            Besides, Intel ATOM already beats that by a large margin. Even Haswell will be able to idle down to below 0.1W for comparison and that’s for the whole MCM! And that’s not even as low as the always connected standby mode goes!

            Timing is in AMD’s advantage for now but it won’t be long before Haswell comes out, as only Bay Trail will take till the end of the year, and they really only have a cost advantage over Haswell…

            While most people looking at low cost solutions want something as mobile as possible and AMD isn’t quite there yet with Temash…

            I do believe AMD will manage to develop its own niche, with some overlap towards both mobile and portable ranges but it’ll be more a different option than direct competition at this point.

          10. The whole system includes the screen and the ssd among other things! It is completely relevant! Haswell will not come in a sub-10W TDP and will cost a lot more then temash, if you’re going to compare, compare haswell to kavari! Temash is still very mobile, while more power hungry then Bay Trail. However it will be better rounded as an SOC and will probably cost less.

          11. Haswell has already been shown to be able to operate below 10W and there is a 10W max TDP part planned for release for it!

            The cost advantage will be Temash’s only advantage… While Kavari may rival Haswell performance and also should still be cheaper but won’t even try to compete on power efficiency.

            And no, costs will likely be in Bay Trail’s favor… System costs will be higher because of the higher power consumption, greater heat generation, and consequential need for additional parts like fans, which in turn means larger/thicker system designs, etc.

            Only the dual core Temash can even go fan-less! While getting chips from third parties instead of their own FABs can probably also factor in Intel’s favor.

          12. You could say the same about z-60 vs clovertrail to an even bigger extent. However the tablets are priced around the same. We don’t know much about baytrail yet, I say its best we hold off judgment until we know real facts. Haswell will have 10W TDP versions however ULV parts are always the last to launch. Temash is 5.9W TDP and Haswell is 10W TDP, big difference! In addition Haswell ULV will cost much more then temash, there’s really no contest and its two very different products. We don’t know what kavari’s power consumption will be but there will be ULV parts for that as well, AMD apus are quite competitive on power consumption when compared to Intel’s “core” line.

          13. “However the tablets are priced around the same.”

            No, the Z-60 tablet is priced equivalent to Clover Trails equipped with additional premium parts like WACOM digitizers.

            More basic Clover Trail tablets go for about just over a hundred less!

            Mind that Hondo is basically just a optimized version of the C-50 and makes no use of cost cutting features like putting everything into a SoC and it’s 4.5W max TDP rating is still multiple times higher than Clover Trails 1.7W max TDP rating.

            I don’t mind holding off on final judging for Bay Trail, but by all accounts it will at the very least be a definite and much needed improvement to Clover Trail.

            While Temash will cover a range with a 3.6W, for dual core, to 5.9W, for quad core, max TDP, with the quad core able to go to 14W under Turbo Mode.

            Haswell will definitely cost more but the performance and power efficiency can justify that difference to those seeking the most performance and battery life they can get.

            AMD has held a cost advantage over Intel for a long time, and a graphical advantage for years as well but they need more than that to really gain market share from Intel.

            While we know only Temash will be a SoC and thus none of the higher end products from AMD will be pushing power efficiency as hard as Temash.

            Besides, Kaveri is for pushing against Intel on max performance range and early reports indicate that TDP would be set at a 100W for the Quad APU’s and down to 17W at the lowest end mobile dual cores!

            So, it doesn’t look like Kaveri will be competing with Intel on power efficiency either…

          14. Your average clover trail device costs around ~$600, same as the only z-60 tablet I’ve seen with a price. Those seeking the best battery life will still go with atom/temash. Haswell will not have amazing battery life, much better then IB but still a 10W TDP, nowhere near the fan less mark of ~5.5W. Kaveri doesn’t have concrete details like that. You can say IB goes up to 140W TDP if you Want but it means nothing. We don’t know what kaveri ULV parts will be like but I’m going remain optimistic. Trinity/richland competes well with mobile IB right now. I’m rooting for both AMD and Intel here. I have an old windows tablet from the windows 7 days with a atom n450 single core at 1.66Ghz and I have a desktop with an athlon II x2 270 clocked at 4.08Ghz. I also have an android tablet and a nexus 4. I am by no means a fanboy, I’m simply excited by AMDs products. Intel will have great products too, no doubt, but I’m rooting for them more in the intel vs arm race and AMD more in the AMD vs Intel race.

          15. “our average clover trail device costs around ~$600, same as the only z-60 tablet I’ve seen with a price.”

            No, that Z-60 tablet (aside from a full HD screen) is a pretty basic tablet and thus compares to the lower cost Clover Trail Tablets that also have a basic design.

            “Haswell will not have amazing battery life”

            They’re already promising around 8 hours+… which is amazing when tablets using Core i-series processors are hard pressed to provide 5 hours now.

            The idling state is just over 30 times better than what Ivy Bridge offers. So there’s significant power savings… while support for always connected standby mean Haswell devices can stay updated while suspended and that suspend state can last day!… For Bay Trail they can go for weeks, meaning you basically never need to turn them completely off!

            There’s nothing wrong with rooting for products you like… But there are clearly things AMD still needs to improve on…

            Keep in mind it’s always a moving target and it matters more what AMD’s long term results are than any one product release and I’m mainly expressing concern for where they go from here!

          16. The lower cost clovertrail tablets cost Around that price and they do not have an HD screen. Yes haswell will be goodish for tablets. But there are serious tradeoffs. Fanless designs are not possible. Also current i5 ULV processors cost >$200. Its way too expensive to compete with temash, baytrail and to a lesser extent arm. Baytrail will be good, no doubt, but those specifics are not yet avalible. For all we know baytrail could consume more power then clovertrail. It would not be surprising, double the cores, add out of order execution, ect

          17. You seem to be forgetting that the quad core Temash won’t be fan-less either!

            While that Hondo tablet may have a Full HD 1080P screen but it’s not a IPS screen! So the Clover Trail tablets HD screens could actually cost more.

            Besides, the official price of the AMD Z-Series Z-60 processor is $63!!!

            While Haswell may be much higher priced, even though it lowers the minimum to about $170, but between the power efficiency and performance it’ll offer… then to many that can more than make up for the price difference.

            Main complaint of Pro tablets isn’t so much the pricing, but the fact present Pro Tablets can’t offer more than a few hours of usage and that’s unacceptable to many who want tablets for mobile usage… So that would be essentially solved by Haswell.

            And like pointed out already, AMD has had price advantage for a long time but many still decide to go with Intel… So IMO they need more leverage…

            We’ll see how it plays out in any case…

            As for Bay Trail, what’s being reported is average run time will improve by about 2 hours from Clover Trail… So say a Clover Trail Tablet will last for 7 hours then a Bay Trail version will last for 9 hours.

            Mind the tablet version of Bay Trail has a target max TDP of below 3W… much like the present Clover Trail. The Sub-Notebook version raises that a bit to below 6.5W and they will re-introduce a desktop version (like the old ATOM nettops) or D-version that will allow up to 12W but that version will also go up to eight cores and primarily be intended for servers.

            Really, Intel wouldn’t be able to even consider Bay Trail for Smart Phones if power efficiency was worse than Clover Trail for the tablet version…

            In any case Intel is already starting to showcase a desktop sampling unit and a Asus Prototype laptop with Bay Trail running on it… The laptop has a 2560×1600 resolution screen and was playing a 2560×1600 resolution high resolution video flawlessly all day during IDF and it never got hot.

            No doubt Intel will continue to showcase it more during the next tech show and reveal more details… The up to 8GB of RAM has already been confirmed and obviously the video resolution support… while we’ll see about the rest.

          18. Please wait till its announced before saying stuff about TDP, performance, battery life, ect. From my understanding BayTrail has no prototype anyone’s every seen because its never been announced! In any case temash could easily play video at that resolution as well. About the phone thing they could easily. Their phone chip is probably going to be lower powered/featured. They will not be directly linked. Yes quad core temash will not be completely fan less(nearly though) but its TDP is still significantly lower. Its like apples to oranges though, you cannot really compare. You really can’t, you’re looking at $800+ tablets vs $500-600 tablets most probably. You’re also forgetting that ULV haswell and baytrail will be released after temash. The other win amd needs in this space is good design wins. I think they will have some with temash, especially if this Acer is any indication. They surprised everyone by showcasing it while they are usually late. AMD is not going after “pro” tablets. They are going after a bigger market, the sub $700 tablet space

          19. What I’ve stated is what they’ve announced! Just like Intel’s statements on the planned price ranges for laptops and tablets using Bay Trail.

            And like I said, the prototype was already shown at IDF!


            And sub $700 is still Pro range… Acer W700 for example can be found for as low as $730… and next gen Pro Tablets are expected to go lower as they improve designs and lower system costs.

            Just because many have released over priced low end tablets doesn’t mean the Pro Tablets have to start much higher!

            Besides, general prices should come down with the second generation Windows tablets… SSD capacities, for example, are set to increase soon… So by early next year they will likely be able to offer say 64GB for what 32GB costs now and increase max capacities to 256GB vs the 128GB limit we have now.

            While AMD has absolutely no plans for a phone product at this time!

            Smallest thing Temash will go into is a not so small 10″ or larger tablet… remember, only the dual core version can even go fan-less and that’s the lowest version they will be releasing!

            I agree that the Acer show casing a Temash product this early is good news for AMD, but we’ll have to see where it goes from here and temper our expectations with the knowledge of what AMD won’t be offering with this release!

          20. Easy KAVERI WILL USE TOO MUCH POWER just like EVERY OTHER CRAPPY AMD product in existence.

          21. how would you know how much power Kaveri will use, it’s not out for 7 months.

            It’s looks like you’re not taking the CPU in this new laptop into account, it’s a 5W quad-core 1Ghz chip, that’s very little power for such a powerful chip

          22. Nope it uses lots of power for a 5 watt chip but that’s not surprising when the chip actually uses 14 watts not 6 watts.

          23. The chip has Two modes, 6W on battery power and 14W when on the mains.
            I know this is a hard thing for you to wrap your mind around because it is a New Concept.

          24. Concept sucks for me because I run on main power all of the time so to me IT uses 14 watts NOT 6 watts. With that logic I can tell that AMD has not fixed their power problem otherwise it would be a 6 watt chip all the way.

          25. Logic? Your so-called “logic” makes less sense than the logic used by a mouldy potato. Just go away.

          26. If they hadn’t fixed their power problem it would have been 14W all the way, but they have, so it’s not.
            If you run on mains all the time, why is power consumption your main priority?

          27. I actually care about how much my PC uses unlike you MR. I Love AMD and their power hogging CPU/APU’s!!!!! Wrong Its just a power state its not the true TDP of the chip so AMD didn’t fix their power problem.

          28. AMD still use TDP and it’s still pretty accurate (if you know how it works), unlike Intels SDP on the other hand.

            So, why do you care about how much electricity your PC uses?

    2. The i3 will probably crush it in single threaded tasks like no tomorrow. AMD hasn’t had a decent single thread performer compared to intel in quite some time. In highly parallel asks, the new A6 will be competitive. Also in situations where you’re doing many small things at once, the A6 isn’t a necessarily bad choice. Otherwise the i3 is going to be hard to beat, even today so much is single threaded, that the extra IPC in Ivy Bridge is highly desireable. Especially if you’re doing anything with AES encryption, or something that can leverage the fixed function hardware in the i3. All other encryption work probably goes to the A6 because of the programmable GPU. But the fact of the matter is that the Intel is using i3 Ivy Bridge Core architecture, and the Temesh cores are I believe jaguar cores which were designed to go head to head with Atom, and merely adding more of them doesn’t bring it into the same league as even an undervolted i3.

      I hate saying all that, I’m not a Intel fan really. I would rather give my money to ARM or AMD. But that’s the reality of the processor market right now.

      If you’re just looking for a dirt cheap servicable laptop, especially as a campanion device… they will probably both work, but for my money I’d buy the Intel version.

      Then again I’d also be putting off any non-essential upgrades until at least October of this year when the introduction of Haswell will knock previous gen products down in price, as well as bringing the low end up onto a higher footing.

      1. Your single threaded argument is moot. What are are talking about is bulldozer and pile driver architectures. For example AMD z-60 @1ghz performs the same as an atom @1.8ghz. Jaguar doesn’t feature modules which cripple single threaded performance. On early benchmarks temash @1.4ghz equals Intel i3 @1.4ghz in performance at a lower TDP.

        1. No Actually CPU performance between AMD z-60 and Atom is the same there is NO difference. NO AMD’s shitty temash @ 1.4ghz WILL NEVER equal an i3 @ 1.4 ghz NEVER!!!!!! Intel i3 is 2x faster than AMD temash AT the same clock.

          1. I just said there is no difference. However the atom is clocked 80% higher. However temash increases IPC by >15%, it adds 2 more cores and it increases clocks 40%. It can match i3.

          2. Atom is clocked higher but Atom IPC is higher than you think it is. I am talking about Intel’s 32nm phone atom SoC not older Intel atoms.

          3. I’m talking about 32nm clover trail. Now since we agree CPU performance is equal between them and IPC means performance per clock then amd Hondo z-60 has a much higher IPC.

          4. Oh that old atom chip. I was about the phone version of Intel’s Atom medfield. Amd Hondo is hardly any products I haven’t read much of anything about tablets with AMD z-60 in them. Intel is stepping up their game and AMD is in trouble. AMD doesn’t want to compete with Intel because they can’t win that fight. AMD is a cowardly company because they don’t want to fight Intel so Instead they will try and compete in a field the board thinks they will win in but that turns out to be the BIGGEST MISTAKE AMD HAS EVER MADE and shortly after THEY WILL DIE!!!!

          5. I’ll ignore your trolling and focus on the actual stuff you said. Firstly clovertrail+ for smart phones(looks great tbh) is a smartphone chip and cannot be compared to tablets however clover trail for tablets is the equivalent: same clocks,process and cores. Second amd is stepping up their game with steamroller, kavari, kabini and temash

          6. OK but AMD Steamroller, kaveri, kabini, and temash ARE ALL GOING TO SUCK compared to Intel’s almighty HASWELL!!!! Intel is also becoming serious and AMD is going to feel the squeeze from ARM and Intel. I use ARM as a benchmark for how much power a DESKTOP cpu should use should according to that Intel and AMD SUCK balls. However Intel is fast approaching that target while AMD looks like they are they really aren’t anywhere close.

          7. I really must borrow your crystal ball, it comes up with some wacky predictions. Temash looks awesome and Kaveri is shaping up very well.
            I don’t think Intel have any 5.9W quad-cores do they, and everybody knows that you need for cores for serious work.

          8. did you even read that review, I’d already seen it, Temash looks great, In CPU benchmarks it gets within 30% of so of the 1.4Ghz core i3. But also has the ability to run at lower power levels to extend battery life.
            So it’s not far off chips that cost more than $100 more.
            TDP-wise, Haswell chips are not going to get down to 5.9W now are they?

          9. Wrong the 5.9 watt state is more like a 12 watt state to me and its really a 15 watt CHIP and uses 22 watts at full load which IS UNACCEPTABLE for a chip of SUCH LOW performance!!!!! But Temash is a quad core and the i3 is a dual core so its a moot point. Moar Cores ARE NOT BETTER Intel WINS because their IPC is double that of ANYTHING AMD has out.

          10. You’re very confused.

            To start with, how could they measure the chips power consumption in it’s 5.9W mode, it’s much easier to measure a computers power consumption plugged it, so the chip was in it’s 14W mode.

            Don’t pretend to be so indignant about a whole system with a 14W chip pulling 21.9W under full CPU/GPU load with everything switched on. That’s actually a very good result, maybe you don’t have the ability to recognize it though.

            Here, I’ll help.

            Here’s a review of a 11.5″ Asus ultrabook with a 17W Intel chip:
            Under full load this system uses 34.6W!

            To show this is not an anomoly, here’s a 11.5″ Acer Ultrabook with the same 17W Intel chip:

            Under full load, this one uses 33.8W

            I hope you are suitably outraged, AMD stay pretty much within their TDP, but intel go miles past theirs in search of better benchmarks.

            Higher IPC is great for gaming, but do you know what’s better for gaming, a good discreet graphics card!

          11. I am well aware that Intel Core i5 17 Watt notebook use 35 watts even the NUC uses that much. However it is FAR faster than AMD’s Temash IN EVERY ASPECT!!!! High IPC works well for PS2 and GC/Wii emulation.

          12. So what you’re saying is that AMD uses a more realistic TDP than intel, thanks.

            Sure, I know that Temash is going to be slower than a core i7, i5 and even i3 chips. AMD have been actually quite honest about the performance of the chip and it performs as expected.

            The real question for people is how does it do against a similarly priced intel chip, like a Celeron (because, you know, not many people are prepared to pay an extra $100 just to save $3 a year on power).

            And the news is that it performs better than this intel celeron system:

            and close to this pentium system:

            It’s also suitable for very slim or long battery life systems due to it’ 5.9W mode.

          13. You’re Welcome. The AMD temash system uses as much power as the Celeron system that you linked me to. Although I need something that performs a bit better that power consumption level.

          14. I think you’re being way too miserly with your power requirements.

            Intel (and to a lesser extent AMD) charge a premium for some of their high-profile ULV chips, for example the 2.6Ghz 35W i5-3220M costs the same ($225) as the 1.7Ghz 17W i5-3317U. It’s simply not worth getting the ULV chip as a way to same money on your power bills, you miss out on loads of performance, and realistically only save a few $’s a month

          15. A few dollars a month when my power is about $55 is great. No not really I am being right on spot with my power requirements.

          16. Where do you draw the line? if you really want to save money you should be using a 10inch Atom netbook for all your computing needs.
            For me anything less than a decent desktop is a unnecessary compromise.

          17. I draw the line at 45 watts of power but the performance better be DOWNRIGHT AWESOME for me to justify using that much power. For you would settle for no less than a 150 watt power guzzling AMD desktop. That is way too much heat and power used. I like my systems small and powerful.

          18. Nope, I build a lot of custom systems, the last one was a small, quiet, power efficient A10-5700 system (mini-ITX, SSD, Blu-ray, aftermarket almost-silent fan), if you look at:
            you can see that efficient desktop systems from intel and AMD can be down around the 60 to 70W range.

            Sure, you could get a power-efficient intel NUC or similar:
            You’d save a bit on power usage (30-40W under full load), but compare the gaming scores, it’s just not worth it, the desktop-chip-based systems score 2.5x higher.

          19. The APU uses more than 70 watts that’s how much my old Intel SB system with AMD radeon 5570 uses AND IT SUCKS ASS!!!! My system uses 2x more power than I would want it to and the GPU performance is poor at best but I got a really old video card.

          20. Did you ever try comparing a 5570-based system to an AMD Trinity system. The trinity systems will score 2x to 3x better. Also I thought you wanted a quiet system, those small fans you get on all cheapie graphics cards are usually very noisy.

            There’s no such thing as a free lunch, if you want a system with good gaming performance it’s going to use more power.

          21. The 5570 sucks that much? I do want a quiet and small system and yes the cheapie fans are VERY NOISY!!! No there isn’t but I expect a lot.

          22. The 5570 was a low-end card when it was released almost 3.5 years ago, it’s been well overtaken now.
            Small fans can be ok if they are implemented well, but it’s hard to beat big-but-slow-spinning fans on a desktop for low-noise.

          23. The Market hasn’t changed that much for video cards. In fact Video cards are more expensive now than EVER!!!!! My PC uses 80 I would like something that takes up less power and is much smaller and is faster than Intel SB Core i3-2100T,4 GB RAM,1 TB HD, and Radeon 5570 Video card as I said my system SUCKS ASS and I need it replaced ASAP!!!!

          24. Of course video cards are more expensive than ever, the bottom has dropped out of the low-end graphics card market, because of the integrated GPUs. There’s no market for low-end cards any more.

            Getting something faster than an i3-2100/5570 is easy, but it sounds like you could replace your motherboard /CPU and get a new graphics card, upgrading a few components is always cheaper than getting a new system from scratch.

          25. Alright What would I replace my current setup with? I don’t that much about being super cheap but it has to be good.

          26. Skip the mobile chips, they’re not worth it. If you’re serious about emulation and games get something like a Haswell core i5-4570S. If you want to game at 4K, you need a top-of-the-line graphics card, you could try to get away with a passive HD7850 if you have a big case with big fans, otherwise it’s a HD7950 or a GTX 660Ti.

          27. I think I can get away with a quieter mid range card like the 7750. The HD7950 and GTX 660TI makes too much noise and use 200 watts each just for the card itself. Plus I want a small system NOT a big one.

          28. You know where I have to go now! If you think you can get away with a 7750 class card then you should wait for Kaveri, as it will have 7750-like performance, along with GDDR5 memory that will mean it’s not compromised for high resolution displays, and for power/heat/quietness issues it’s easier to handle IGP video.

            I don’t think the cache memory on a GT3e is going to make a big enough difference for real games to bring it up to 7750 level, it’ll likely fall well short.

            Get a big Noctua or Thermaltake cooler, a miniITX motherboard, small case and a 65W class chip and you’ll be set.

          29. Kaveri does sound good for Mini ITX however Intel will still have better CPU performance. Intel Boardwell will crush Kaveri In power consumption, GPU and CPU performance.

          30. Kaveri should close some of the IPC gap at least and will probably be a quite economical. Broadwell is not due our for more than a year, Kaveri is due this year.

          31. Kaveri is due LATE LATE this year. Some dumb bullish AMD execs say that Kaveri will increase IPC by 50% I say NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!! If Kaveri Fails AMD IS DUST. Kaveri is AMD’s last hope otherwise they have no future. Kaveri will still use too much power.

          32. Did you mis-read that exec’s statement, did they actually say “Up To 50%”. That’s a totally different thing to saying “50%”.

            Kaveri is not going to target low-power systems, I don’t know where you got that impression, AMD have Temash/Kabini for that. A lot of users don’t need extremely low idle and load power usage. They would much prefer a high-performing low-cost system.

        2. Actually, a dual core ATOM at 1.8GHz has a bit better CPU performance than dual core Z-60 at 1GHz… The Bobcat core is a more efficiency CPU but they reach parity after just a few hundred MHz in the ATOM’s favor and aside from Medfield, the ATOMs are pretty much all dual core now.

          So a 80% higher clock for the ATOM starts giving it the CPU advantage. Though, it’s not a huge performance gap and nothing to brag about with that much of a clock speed gap to achieve it but the ATOM is more power efficient and that lets it push higher clock speeds to compensate for its present limitations.

          Clover Trail’s GMA is also about 3x better than the previous ATOM Pine Trail GMA 3150. So the AMD Z-60’s normal 5x advantage drops to less than 2x… Though that still puts it ahead graphically but the lower CPU performance and lack of power efficiency makes the the ATOM the better option for mobile uses.

          Of course the upcoming Bay Trail will obliterate that performance gap, with up to 2x better CPU and up to 3x better GPU performance than the present Clover Trail…

          But by then Temash will be out and will offer even higher performance… Though, AMD still has a long way to go on power efficiency and that’ll mean it’s still mainly a race between Intel ATOM and ARM SoCs for now.

          While AMD can try to fit in between what the ATOM offers on the Mobile side and higher end products until they can improve their power efficiency for what will be needed to really enter the mobile market.

          1. Where are you getting 2x better performance from Hondo? Hondo graphics are about the same as Intel HD 4000. Based on 3Dmark scores on the HD 4000 has ~30x better performance than clovertrail. Even with baytrail offering substantial graphics gains they will never catch temash or even come close. It will however be more energy efficient. Temash will not be power hungry by any means and will still be suitable for use it tablets. The surface pro is even rumored to use a temash chip next time around.

          2. LOL, no… Hondo is nowhere near the HD4000… notebookcheck specifically compared it to the Nvidia ION!

            Really, Z-60 only performs about as well as the C-50!

            Mind that the GPU model number often gets confused with their higher end versions.

            Temash and Kabini are the first real improvement to AMDs low end offering in years!

          3. It’s a good thing Hondo is no more then isn’t it. It’s has been replaced by the vastly superior Temash.

          4. Sorry Temash is superior to Temash however IT IS NOTHING COMPARED TO Intel’s Almighty Haswell!!!!

          5. It uses less power and is considerably cheaper than Haswell, it’s in a different market.

      2. You said you were not an intel fan, you sure sound like one making wrong un-informed argument on i3 vs Temash A6 quad core. Explore early performance from tomshardware and you will see the huge advantage Temash has over what Intel currently have and what is coming from Haswell family. Do you know that Apples cpu in their entire A4,A5 and A6 ARM SOC never was higher than 1.2GHz, A5 is 1Ghz, what they worked hard on is the GPU and have been very competitive compared to other ARMS cpus SOC.

        Temash have been demoed on reference platforms ranging from tablet fanless to hybrids and they destroy anything intel has to offer in those classes (This includes games at 1080p native on tablets and hybrids)



        1. Temash USES WAY too much power to be in tablets. Also its NOT FAST ENOUGH!!!! Next gen ARM SoC’s WILL DESTROY AMD in EVERY aspect even GPU and use FAR less power doing it!!!!!

          1. That’s the TDP and to AMD TDP means how much it uses during NORMAL usage!!!! So it uses MUCH more than that!!!! AMD’s c-50 has a 9 watt TDP yet they system uses double that AMD’s new chip will follow the same rules.

          2. TDP does not mean the maximum amount of power a chip can use. It refers to the maximum amount of power a chip uses under normal usage conditions. Both companies, AMD and Intel, produce chips that consume power well above what their TDP rating indicates.

            To suggest that only AMD does this is being disingenuous. For example, Intels NUC system which has a 17W CPU can use up to 46 watts in heavy usage. And there’s a 30W difference between when the computer is idle and at full load:

            That’s clear evidence that it’s working well beyond it’s 17W TDP.

          3. Wrong Ever since a few years ago my definition is FAR more accurate. Intel does it too but to say AMD doesn’t IS BULLSHIT!!!!

          4. so you have your own personal definition of TDP, one that you appear to be keeping to yourself as well. Good for you.

            Also you appear to have a problem reading what I wrote. **** BOTH **** companies chips consume more power than their TDPs suggest.

            In case you are unsure of the definition of Both, here’s a definition of Both:


            I expect an apology for your poor comprehension skills in your next post

        2. Intel haswell is two to three times faster than AMD’s SHITTY Temash APU and uses less power to boot!!!!

          1. Nope, even the lowest power Haswell will use more power than Temash. And it remains to be seen how powerful these low-power haswells will be, I reckon at best twice as powerful and 3 times the price.

          2. Wrong the savings won’t be passed down so chip price is a moot point. Intel haswell at 15 watts will crush temash IN EVERY POSSIBLE ASPECT including power usage.

          3. So you’re saying a 15W chip will use less power than a 5.9W SOC. That’s not very likely now is it.

          4. It’s not “moot” to the companies that make computers.

            A 15W Haswell is going to use less power than a 5.9W Temash…….. Did you know that I sell bridges, I have one that might interest you.

          5. To me yes Intel’s 15 watt haswell would use less power because that 5.9 watt chip you mention the moment it gets plugged in it becomes a 14 watt chip and its power usage doubles if not more.

          6. And the moment you don’t plug it in, it uses considerably less power.

            Temash is also a SOC, unlike Haswell, so at 14W it’ll use a lot less power than a 15W Haswell.

          7. I somehow doubt that. Doesn’t matter to me because I keep my PC’s plugged in so it uses 14 watts in my book.

          8. To most people the difference between plugged in and not plugged in matters.
            So if you keep your machine plugged in all the time, why don’t you use a desktop?

          9. That’s fanboi logic for you it will use MORE power then Intel’s haswell and have half the performance.

    3. The Intel version IS BY FAR BETTER!!! Intel’s CPU’s are twice as fast as ANYTHING AMD HAS out right now!!!!

      1. CPU performance on it’s own is irrelevant, cpu performance/price is a much more useful metric.
        Intel may have the outright fastest CPU, but the top Intel CPU costs 5x more than the top AMD CPU. It’s shouldn’t take a genius to tell you which of those two chips is better value. (Hint, it’s the AMD chip).

        1. Actually NEITHER one is a good value. Intel’s top end costs too much and AMD’s top end SUCKS TOO MUCH. AMD’s top end uses too much power and the i3 beats in performance in most tasks.

          1. Wrong AMD chips use many times more power than Intel Chips. Non-gaming IS WORTHLESS to me and it stuff most people do not do. Intel has so many advantages that AMD is now a moot point!!!!

          2. That was the case maybe, but now there’s this 5.9W quad core chip that uses less power than any Ivy Bridge or Haswell chip, but yet will play games.
            Although you are aware that lots of people don’t play games and wil make use of a quad-core aren’t you?

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