LuvPad WN1100 Windows 8 tablet sports an AMD Z60 processor

Vizio isn’t the only device maker planning to launch a Windows 8 tablet with an AMD Z-60 processor. Japan’s Mouse Computer has also started to show an AMD-based tablet called the LuvPad WN1100.

mouse luvpad wn1100

The tablet features an 11.6 inch, 1920 x 1080 pixel display, 2GB of RAM, and a 128GB solid state drive.

But what really makes it stand out from most Windows tablets is the AMD Z-60 chip. That’s a 1 GHz dual core processor with AMD Radeon HD 6250 graphics.

In terms of overall performance, AMD Z-series chips are about as fast (or slow) as Intel’s low-power Atom processors. But they tend to offer much better graphics performance, with support for HD video and some 3D graphics.

Like most devices from Mouse Computer, it’s unlikely that the LuvPad WN1100 will be available outside of Japan anytime soon. But if you happen to live in Japan, you should be able to pick one up this week for about 59,850 yen, or about $600.

via Notebook Italia

  • http://www.facebook.com/mr.e.cameron Earl Cameron

    yeah!

    • Jml

      AMD SUCKS AND NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!!!

      • Pablo Nilo

        Jesus.. what did AMD ever do to you? kill your mother?

      • Jml

        No they sucked too hard that’s what they did!!!! I am looking for a semi-custom CPU/GPU for a desktop PC that uses low power but no one is making anything like it!!!!!

      • raddude9

        waaaaah, they don’t make a chip that you like. Get something else and move on with your life then

  • Jml

    WORTHLESS!!! IT USES A CRAPPY AMD APU THAT CAN’T DO SHIT!!!!

    • Pablo Nilo

      i’ve seen videos of this chip running Dirt 3 at 1080p… can you name any other tablet that can do that? this is awesome for gamers everywhere that want to take their games on the go

      • Jml

        Dirt 3 on tablets IS WORTHLESS!!!! Gaming on tablets is terrible at best.

      • raddude9

        just have a look at youtube, the AMD tablets mangage to run a lot of games really well

      • Jml

        Using twice the power of every competing solution on the market. AMD is crap and they ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!

      • raddude9

        There is no competing solution, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. The Atom uses less power but it also has a much weaker GPU, one so weak that you can’t play any kind of game on it.

      • Jml

        Wrong Atom is the competing solution ever thought it has a weaker GPU. Intel’s new Atom will fix that and Crush AMD at the same time.

      • raddude9

        The Atom GPU is far too weak for tablets. And, even if the next generation has twice the GPU power, it will still be behind AMD’s previous generation. Thus it will be the only suitable chip for the new generation of high-resolution x86 tablets.

      • Jml

        Wrong remember the AMD z-60 review I showed you. The z-60 isn’t that much faster and uses DOUBLE the overall power.

      • raddude9

        But now they are releasing much faster chips again, thus fixing the thing you are whinging about.

      • Jml

        Nope Temash isn’t that much faster CPU wise and the gpu is even worse than the HD 3000 from Intel. AMD did disappoint me this time just every other time their tablet GPU’s get beat out by SB in almost every aspect. What makes you think That AMD’s Crappy Temash stands a change against Intel’s Iris graphics or even the HD 4600?

      • raddude9

        Temash has double the cores, so productivity software will be twice as fast. It’s GPU is a bit on an unknown at this point, but you could play a lot of modern games at low reson on bobcat chips, so it will probably be pretty decent.

        It’s not in the same price bracket as Haswell, so it doesn’t have to compete with it.

      • Jml

        What are you smoking double the cores does NOT mean productivity will be twice as fast in real life four cores MEANS DIDDLY SQUAT!!!! Four Cores ARE worthless to me and in real life apps like facebook, email, and casual gaming. Not to mention tablets its worthless on because it will double cpu power usage with ZERO benefit to performance. Gaming doesn’t even use 4 cores for the most part.

      • raddude9

        For facebook, email and casual gaming you only need one slow core. For real apps 4 cores is good. Games started to use four cores years ago.

      • Jml

        Wrong games just started using four cores a couple of years ago and even now only a few of them so Intel is by far superior and IPC is king so Intel’s dual core will trash AMD’s quad core ANYDAY!!!!

      • raddude9

        Wrong again, GTA IV made use of quad cores and that was more than a couple of years ago now.
        Besides, the GPU usually matters more for games and there AMD usually has the advantage.

      • Jml

        GTA 4 was horribly optimized so it doesn’t count and it sucked on almost every PC out there expect really high end ones. AMD doesn’t have the advantage don’t you get it. I don’t think temash is any better than Brazos right THEY both suck ass!!!!

      • raddude9

        Sure, why don’t you just make up “rules” on what counts and what doesn’t, see how that works out.

        Temash is demonstrably more powerful than any Brazos chip. It’s both more powerful and uses less power. Try paying attention to that Temash review.

      • Jml

        It says NOTHING about power consumption!!! Where does it say info about TDP or power usage I’ll bet you it doesn’t? Temash isn’t that much more powerful than Brazos I somehow doubt it uses less power despite less TDP than Brazos.

      • raddude9

        Sure, you can believe that a 6W SOC will use the same amount of power as a 18W non-SOC, that’s cool for you.

      • Jml

        Knowing AMD and the way they always disappoint yeah of course I am going to think that!!!!

      • raddude9

        I’m not surprised

      • Jml

        Its too weak now but so was AMD’s z-60!!!! Wrong AMD has always had a lot of hype and you’re believing it. I stopped believing in the AMD hype after the disappointment with AMD’s SHITTY FX-8150 I learned NEVER to believe that AMD could ever deliver and also that AMD IS DOOMED!!!!

      • raddude9

        you keep saying that their “doomed” without ever showing any evidence. A lot of analysts have the opinion that they will turn a profit this year. You probably ignored those reports though because you would find it upsetting.

        Also, if you were disappointed with the FX-8150, then you should have looked at some of the reviews, for a number of benchmarks, zipping, encryption, video encoding it performs better than the similarly priced intel chips of the time. Sure, in games it was a bit slower, but surely even you could realise that not everybody is a gamer.

      • raddude9

        Atom can’t even play basic games. AMD chips play most games. You probably don’t like games, but this is an important distinction to a lot of people.

      • Jml

        Neither can play games all that well and why would you want to run mainstream games on a tablet its dumb and idiotic.

      • raddude9

        Nope, wrong again.The AMD chip can play a lot of games. And why wouldn’t you want to play games on a tablet. There’s not much hope for you if you can’t see that it’s a real market.

      • Jml

        Because so few games actually run well on tablets. No keyboard and mouse means NO FPS or RPG’s. Only racing games and other simple games work well with tablets. x86 IS not a good tablet CPU MIPS IS!!!!!!! There is a market for tablets but not the one you describe the market you describe is NOTHING more than a niche that AMD is trying to fill!!!!

      • raddude9

        But with an x86 tablet you can easily add a keyboard, mouse and external screen. This way you can turn a toy tablet into a serious computer.

      • Jml

        The screen is too small for any real gaming. Talk about lots and lots of eyestrain. Then the tablet is almost pointless!!!

      • raddude9

        Use an external screen or hold the tablet closer to your face. I like the idea of gaming on a tablet.

      • Jml

        That’s because YOU’RE a moron and I AM NOT!!!!!

      • raddude9

        Somebody who is not a moron would, at the very least, know when to use capital letters and when not to.

      • Jml

        I just don’t care AMD IS FINISHED!!!!! GOODBYE AMD NOW DIE!!!!

      • raddude9

        nope, AMD is doing fine, it’s comsumers that would be hurt if they did die

      • raddude9

        A lot of morons actually know how to use capital letters properly, you on the other hand…..

      • Jml

        I don’t care and I am not a moron!!!!

      • raddude9

        If you didn’t care you wouldn’t have replied!

  • Jml

    Arm uses less power than ANYTHING AMD WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE!!!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/mr.e.cameron Earl Cameron

      smart guy arm doesnt make anything of less power than amd…

      • Jml

        Damn your stupid ARM uses far less power than ANYTHING AMD can or will EVER make in its lifetime. AMD IS GOING DOWN!!!!!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/mr.e.cameron Earl Cameron

        arm is fabless, they design the instruction set and license it off to other manufacturers to implement in hardware, they are the ones who make the chips sir.

      • CyberGusa

        AMD is FABless too, they broke ties with Global Foundries and have others manufacture their products, just like ARM!

        Besides, it’s semantics as we’re talking about the final product and it doesn’t matter how it’s made! Just what the product offers and how they compare!

      • Jml

        No it doesn’t matter who made it!!! What matters is how well it performs and how little power it uses also the IPC also matters as well and NONE OF AMD’S PRODUCTS are good at any of these!!!!

      • Jml

        I know that!!! ARM uses far less power than every AMD product ever created!!!! AMD will never touch ARM in power consumption and because they can’t do that THEY ARE DOOMED!!!! AMD IS GOING DOWN ALONG WITH M$!!!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/mr.e.cameron Earl Cameron

        The samsung exynos 5250 begs to differ, that soc uses more power than the z60

      • Jml

        Wrong!!! Actually they are about the same!!! They both uses 12 watts and that’s too much for a SHITTY AMD APU!!!!!

      • Nihil Novum Sub Sole

        1. Using caps lock makes you look like an immature child or some one that should be institutionalized.
        2. AMD can not “go down” because Intel will, by law, have to bail them out just as Microsoft, by law, had to bail out Apple in the 90′s. It is not legal to monopolize a market.
        3. If anything AMD is going up, they have dropped out of a stupid high-end desktop race with Intel that they should have dropped out of after K6 and are now focusing on the correct markets; Servers and Mobile devices. Right now the APU completely destroys anything Intel or ARM has. Yes it uses 3 more watts then Intel’s but Intel’s Atom is complete rubbish along with it’s IGP. And now that AMD owns SeaMicro they have a large roll in the enterprise server market.
        4. If there is any reason why AMD would go down, it would be, as it always has been for AMD, poor management, not products, their products have been consistently great for the mid range market which is also, ironicly the biggest market for technology today.

      • Jml

        Wrong on all points. Intel does not NEED AMD ANY LONGER!!!! ARM is Intel’s new competition AMD IS NO LONGER NEEDED!!! AMD’s Products suck and their pricing IS EVEN WORSE!!!! Wrong the APU GETS PWN3D BY EVERYTHING THAT INTEL AND ARM HAS!!!! Hello Dumb AMD FANBOI!!!!!!!

      • raddude9

        yea right, without AMD, the price of intel’s chips would go through the roof.

      • Jml

        Hint they already have gone thought the roof because AMD is noncompetitive!!!!!

      • raddude9

        I’ll try to explain.

        To start with, Intel’s prices have not gone through the roof. You can get a new Ivy-Bridge based Intel Celeron for $42, a Pentium for $64 or a core i3 for $117. All very reasonable.

        Now, a core i7 will cost about $300 (and up), that’s because AMD don’t have any competitors for these high-end intel chips.

        So, now do you see how important competition really is, and how much we need AMD to keep prices reasonable.

      • Jml

        There’s so called completion for WEAK ass chips that can’t do anything I suppose. But yes I was talking about the high end for the most part. AMD IS NOT NEEDED ANYMORE THEY SUCK TOO MUCH!!!!!!

      • raddude9

        by “so-called” you mean “actual” then.

        So you finally admit that AMD Are competition.

        But, despite this, you think that AMD is not needed!!!
        If there was no competition at the low-to-mid level of chips, what do you think would happen to those prices? Hint, those prices would go up. So now do you see why AMD is needed? I hope so.

      • Jml

        No at best AMD is WEAK ASS competition and in most areas they don’t have an answer. Wrong AMD is clinging to the low end and they SUCK AT IT!!!!!

      • raddude9

        You seem to have a very low opinion of intel.

        You think a smart company like intel has competitive prices at the low to mid range for no good reason?

      • Jml

        It seems to be only area AMD is any good at BUT ITS NOT ENOUGH for them to survive. Oh I don’t have a high opinion of INTEL or AMD I am a fanboi OF neither!!!!!

      • raddude9

        You’re not a fanboi……. yea right.

        You also seem to think you can predict the future, only time can tell if AMD’s solutions will be good enough for them to survive.
        You don’t seem to be able to come up with any kind of cogent argument as to why they wont survive, you’re just repeating the same old crap time and time again.

      • Jml

        Tell me then why do you think AMD is going to survive? Everything I read and seen says otherwise. AMD can’t compete with Intel. AMD is stupidly going into a market with a dozen competitors. AMD’s tablet sales are NONEXISTENT. AMD’s APU’s are mediocre and are NOT good enough to outperform Intel haswell. AMD Richland VS Intel Haswell FIGHT which one will win the answer is quite simple AMD will lose this battle and Intel will slaughter AMD.

      • raddude9

        No. You’ve got it backwards. AMD have survived for 44 years, through good and bad times. The onus is on you to explain why, after 44 years of surviving,they are suddenly going to fail. I’ve yet to read a single coherent reason from you as to why they would fail.
        Sure, AMD’s tablet sales have been slow so far, but you are ignoring their new Temash chips which are their first chips truly suitable for tablets.

        You seem to be going on about Richland vs Haswell for some reason. From the indications I have seen Richland wil be about 8% faster than Trinity, but Haswell will only be about 6% faster than Ivy Bridge. So AMD are catching up.

      • Jml

        They are going to fail because they made too many mistakes NOT to fail. Wrong Intel haswell will be 15% faster NOT 6% and Haswell’s IGP is 2 to 3 times faster than Intel’s ivy bridge. With Intel Iris AMD’s Richland WILL BE CRUSHED!!! So AMD is NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!! And they now lost in the IGP wars to Intel!!!!! Rory read as CEO starts the domino effect of AMD going DOWN FOR GOOD!!!! For the past decade AMD has done NOTHING but made mistakes.

      • raddude9

        You’re just making things up again, I havn’t seen a single benchmark where Haswell is 15% faster.

        Haswell’s IGP is nothing close to 3x faster, have a look here:

        http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-performance,3461-7.html
        Even the pro-Intel tomshardware site pegs Haswell behind AMD’s trinity. So it’ll look even worse compared to Richland

        AMD has made mistakes, but what company hasn’t. But recently they’ve gotten back on track and look likely to turn a profit again by the end of the year.

      • Jml

        The CPU is up to 15% faster than Ivy bridge and the GPU is up to 3x faster than the HD 4000 on certain models. Wrong AMD is even MORE hot water AMD IS FINISHED!!! Console deals don’t mean squat for profits that’s why Nvidia didn’t do it this time. AMD is nonexistent in tablets and fading FAST in the desktop market and now they are going into ARM market with a dozen nimble competitors there is NO way AMD IS GETTING OUT OF THIS MESS!!!!

      • raddude9

        Sure, you can keep repeating that it’s “15%” faster, but it doesn’t make it true, any evidence?

        The console work AMD did will be bringing in constant revenue for years. And Nvidia didn’t get the gig because they don’t have any decent CPU technology, it will be at least a year or 2 before they have a 64bit ARM chip.

        Also, they are not getting into the ARM phone market, they are getting into the ARM server market, it’s a totally different thing.
        Sure, you can use CAPS to express your opinion that they are finished, but that does not make it true, they’ve been close to the wire before and recovered.

      • Jml

        Wrong Nvidia Actually could of got the PS4 this time but they are working on tegra and didn’t have the man power for the PS4. I was talking about AMD’s jump into the server market YOU IDIOT!!!! AMD will also take it further and then goodbye AMD AHAHAHAHA!!!!!

      • raddude9

        Nvidia do not have an appropriate CPU technology for the new generation of consoles, their 64bit ARM chips are years away. This is the main reason why they failed to win any of the consoles this time around.
        You say that AMD has “nimble” competitors in the ARM server market. Another word for nimble in this case would be small.
        Any large company is not going to take a chance with a large-scale server installation from a start-up company. The risk that they wont be around to support their own hardware is too great. AMD on the other hard have a long history of creating and supporting large-scale servers. This is very important for large companies wanting to make a long term investment in servers.

      • Jml

        AMD has had a long history of creating NOTHING BUT PURE 100% GRADE A CRAP!!!!! AMD chips are crap THEY SUCK ASS and hog power while SUCKING ASS!!!! Nvidia didn’t have the resources they had to choose between consoles and tegra and they choose tegra. No one will take a chance with AMD now that they made so many SUCK ASS products!!!! GOODBYE AMD NOW DIE!!!!!

      • raddude9

        “No one will take a chance with AMD now”: that’s even more crazy than your other rantings. Microsoft and Sony, two of the biggest and most respected corporations in the world are using AMD chips as the foundation for their next generation of consoles.

        So forgive me for thinking that your little opinion of what is “crap” and what isn’t is irrelevant when compared to the opinion of those two corporations.

      • Jml

        Two desperate corporations would take a chance with AMD because they feel its their only shot. AMD has created NOTHING but 100% PURE GRADE A CRAP!!!! NOW DIE AMD DIE!!!!!!

      • raddude9

        Sure… any corporation you don’t like is “desperate” but SONY and microsoft don’t make a massive bet on AMD for no good reason.

        Nope, wrong again, AMD make some very good chips. And if they did die consumers would be rightly screwed.

      • Jml

        Wrong the consumer wouldn’t be screwed if AMD died!!! Intel is still in the market and they make AWESOME CHIPS!!!! Wrong but M$ and SONY are desperate so they are turning to AMD!!!!

      • raddude9

        So Intel would just lower their prices if AMD didn’t exist? Are you that naive?

      • Jml

        No but they won’t go up by much if any because they are already there. ARM is here to push Intel AMD is NO LONGER NEEDED!!!!!!

      • raddude9

        ARM have no high performance desktop, laptop or server chips. ARM chips can’t run the bulk of the worlds productivity software. So AMD is still very necessary.

      • Jml

        x86 is still needed right now it won’t be as important and therefore AMD IS NO LONGER NEEDED!!!!

      • raddude9

        If x86 is needed, then AMD is needed.

      • Jml

        Wrong again AMD is NOT NEEDED because they can’t put out a good X86 product to save their pathetic lives.

      • raddude9

        Prices would go up without AMD, and a lot of their products are good value actually.

      • Jml

        Oh which one of AMD crappy products are a good value? No not for the chips I would buy!!!!

      • raddude9

        Luckily, the world does not consist of just you.

      • raddude9

        ARM chips can’t run the x86 windows that businesses require. I don’t think Intel would be stupid enough to raise their prices in the absence of AMD, but if you think they would lower their prices then you’re being naive.

      • Jml

        Yeah you’re right about that however that wall is soon to be destroyed!!!

      • raddude9

        I hope so.

      • raddude9

        Oh the irony. You know that saying “your stupid” is bad grammar, you should have said “you’re stupid”. It’s a common mistake made by the kind of people you are accusing that other guy of being.

  • Jml

    Way to go AMD on making the World’s Worst tablet PC!!!!!

    • raddude9

      Huh, this is a great tablet, powered by a great chip. I has a cpu, just as powerful as a good Atom chip with a much more powerful GPU.

  • Renee Auclair

    To the AMD haters: Yeah AMD could do a lot better, but you should thank
    your lucky stars that AMD is around. Imagine how much your Intel CPUs
    would cost, and how much more slowly Intel would come up with new products,
    if AMD wasn’t around to give Intel a semblance of competition.

    • Joe

      I agree but ARM is giving Intel more competition right now

      • CyberGusa

        Primarily because Intel is positioning the ATOM as a direct ARM competitor… ARM is still about 2 years away before it can compete with any of Intel’s higher end processors.

        While the Z-60 Desna may still interest some, because neither ARM or present Clover Trail ATOM is entirely Linux friendly… at least not for the desktop variety and graphically it’s still ahead of even the latest ARM GPUs… It’ll just won’t be great as a tablet, being bulky, heavier than what most mobile tablets now offer, and run time will be much shorter…

        Temash is going to come out soon to offer a better solution from AMD but only the dual core version will be able to compete with ARM/ATOM for mobile space as that’s the only version that will be able to go fan-less.

        While the quad core version will instead probably be marketed to people who want hybrids or specifically something between a tablet and ultrabook type product.

        The Turbo Dock Mode the quad core version supports for example ramps max TDP to 14W and pushes performance into the low Ultrabook range… It just won’t be silent, with both the tablet and the dock containing fans, and unlikely to compete that well on run time.

        While we’ll see whether that’ll compete well with Haswell, which will also go below 10W, but still provide Ultrabook performance, along with Clover Trail like features since Haswell will also support S0i Power Management for always connected standby and extremely low idling states that allow for much potentially greater run times.

        Not to mention the next gen ATOM Bay Trail that’ll start coming out before the end of the year.

      • Jase

        Doesn’t really matter about the performance nor power consumption of ARM vs anything Intel really. It’s the large shift from x86 based OS’s to mostly ARM based ones. That’s why Intel is putting a good amount of resources into porting Android to x86 but that isn’t going to help with iOS and other proprietary ARM targetted OS’s. Windows 8 hasn’t really taken off so Intel isn’t getting much help from Microsoft. I’m sure Intel doesn’t like RT either.

        PC sales have steadily dropped in the last few years which has a direct correlation with Intel’s consumer chip sales. Their server targetted Xeon and Atom chip sales haven’t really gone down and may have actually gone up a bit though.

        So it’s really about what devices are being sold more and if Intel chips can be used.

      • CyberGusa

        On the contrary, the run time is one of the main considerations of mobile devices… Along with cost of course… but unless a device can provide more than 7 hours of usage then it’s not considered good for mobile usage.

        The MS Surface Pro for example, despite providing full PC functionality and Ultrabook range performance is looked down upon by many because it only provides a few hours of run time.

        While early Windows 8 devices have also been a bit on the pricey side and range of selection is still limited but that should change as the platform matures.

        I’d also disagree that people are necessarily shifting to Mobile OS over Desktop, rather it’s the devices themselves that’s determining this at this point.

        The average person doesn’t always need to use much on the go and it’s usually more convenient to use a mobile device on the go than having to lug around a larger device. So mobile devices have gotten more and more usage as their capabilities have increased.

        While traditional PC’s also don’t need to be upgraded or changed as often as mobile devices. So there’s lopsided numbers just from how the the business model for both differs.

        Mind that Windows 8 is also new, the actual history of MS OS releases is the initial release is pretty much always buggy and it takes time for drivers, etc to be updated.

        XP for example took about 3 years and two Service Pack Release before it was considered a good default upgrade to ME/95.

        So people tend to wait till those issues are fixed before diving in… Add the paradigm shift in the OS design will also take time for people to adapt to, as does all major changes… especially, since people tend to resist change and don’t like having to relearn how to do things.

        Windows 8 is starting out slower but it’s also the first major change to the OS in a long time too and that’s going to take longer for people to get used to and for the product ecosystem to develop to the point it becomes a strength instead of a weakness.

        Meanwhile, MS is preparing a major update to Windows 8… Code Blue will upgrade Windows 8 to 8.1 and follows pretty much the same business model as Apple’s OSX… So will introduce more than just a Service Pack release update and will actually have changes to the UI, etc…. which can potentially address many of the early complaints…

        While drivers, etc. will be better by the time of its release and next gen hardware like Haswell, which promise much better run times without a drop in performance, among other changes is what many are waiting for before they upgrade.

        In terms of competition with ARM, Intel’s next gen 22nm Bay Trail will start coming out before the end of the year and will be more than a challenge for ARM because ARM won’t achieve full 64bit support in the consumer range till near the end of the 2014 at the earliest.

        Btw, it’s Google that optimized Android for the Intel ATOM and is why they can get the latest version so quickly… really, even for ARM there are still products being released with older versions of Android.

        The only real app compatibility issue is for gaming but if ATOM starts taking off then developers will be more likely to provide support… The NDK package is already available for them to use, while most Android apps are hardware agnostic…

        Intel also has Tizen and with Bay Trail will also be able to support more Linux distros than ARM presently does… So they’re not counting on W8 being a deciding factor… though it would help if it takes off later.

      • Jase

        We’re talking about Intel’s competition here and their competition is ARM. Sales of Intel powered devices have been going down for years. I didn’t mention the reason to why and who’s deciding the large shift towards ARM devices because the important point is that it’s happening.

        Devices using Intel chips for previously ARM targeted OS’s is going to be slow. Just look at the upcoming Android devices running Intel. They’re obviously not targeted towards large markets.

        It’s Google AND Intel optimizing Android for x86 with obvious emphasis on Intel.

        The rest of your comment goes off on a tangent so I’m not replying that part.

      • CyberGusa

        No, everything stated is relevant and not off on a tegent.

        Unless you can understand all related factors then you’re not really analyzing the situation accurately. Really, until recently ARM was no competition for Intel… So it’s still primarily competition between Intel and AMD!

        ARM has only recently reached the performance range needed to even compete with Intel’s ATOM and that’s at the very bottom of Intel’s Performance range!… We’re talking less than limited netbook range performance!

        The decline of traditional PC’s have thus largely not been related to ARM until very recently, as it’s only recently that ARM is starting to be used in usages that overlap traditional PC usages like low end servers but ARM is still very limited and thus the competition is only in certain applications and still a long way from being a direct competitor of Intel.

        Rather, the failing economy, slow change in PC technology and pricing, and how both effects have pushed people towards making due with less is what’s really the primary cause of the PC slowdown.

        It’s just that environment of making due with less has helped the mobile market grow rapidly and now it’s in the starting position to start offering real competition.

        Intel just sees this growing trend and that mobile is here to stay and with traditional PC market naturally being slower and in many ways less profitable (the profit margins of the iPad for example are much larger than pretty much any PC). So they’re already changing their priorities and starting to optimize their technology for mobile usages.

        The idea that people would only want mobile devices though is a utter farce. Mobile devices as they are now are extremely limited and mobile OS are limited by design, as that’s why they’re easy to run.

        But people also need to be productive and this is where mobile is the weakest. So PC’s may see a decline but it’s still a long way from them going away…

        Where it’ll get interesting is by the end of 2014 when ARM finally becomes fully 64bit… and removes many of the limitations that hold it back from much wider usages.

        However, this gives Intel over a year to establish itself in the mobile market and strengthen its traditional products as well.

        Intel’s Bay Trail ATOM update for example is just the first, they’re updating the ATOM annually from now on with the same tic-toc two year cycle as Intel’s higher end processors and of course Haswell will also just be the first of many improvements on Intel’s higher end… widening the gap ARM will need to close after they go 64bit!

        Meanwhile, the economy is improving and if consumer confidence returns then people may start paying for performance and that’s still where both AMD and Intel is stronger than ARM.

      • Jase

        The dramatic increase of ARM based device sales has gone the opposite of economy’s state especially with people buying these devices on a yearly basis (both smartphone and tablet costing more than a PC). Given a better economy, the gap between ARM and Intel device sales will still exist. The PC market will still have dwindled while the mobile market would still thrive using ARM chips.

        Intel’s main competitor right now and for the past few years is ARM (http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/processors/the-battle-between-arm-and-intel-gets-real, http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/11/09/can-intel-challenge-arms-mobile-dominance/) and the companies who manufacture them. It’s not AMD that is for sure. Even Intel’s CEO is calling out ARM as their competitor and no mention of AMD (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20028506-64.html). Right now Intel is focusing on competing with ARM and to a much lesser extent, AMD.

        You’re too focused on head to head comparisons of the chips and not looking at the market. No matter how powerful or efficient Intel’s chips are, they won’t make them onto devices if the OS doesn’t support them and no notable devices have them. It’s a slow battle for Intel.

      • Jase

        Well, head to head comparisons will of course matter for the device makers but they’ll have to weigh the benefits of Intel’s chips to the costs of porting their software to x86. As you mentioned, by the time that’s feasible, it’ll be next year and then add to that, the time for the porting their software. Hopefully, by then Intel’s Android port will be very efficient and stable and that Android has beaten out its competitors. However, that just gives ARM a longer time to strengthen its existing dominance in the mobile market coupled with advancements in mobile OS’s.

        Anyway, my point, again, is that it’s Intel vs ARM while AMD occasionally jumps into the scuffle.

      • CyberGusa

        You’re basically underestimating AMD… Temash is AMD’s first SoC and the dual core version can go into fan-less designs.

        It may take another generation before they can get it into anything more mobile like a Smart Phone but they’ve taken the first step. While they still have their traditional market to still lean on for the time being.

        While those seeking something between the present extremes of low and high end, is where AMD can still find a possible niche… they don’t have to directly compete to find a place in the market!

      • Jml

        AMD isn’t going to able to find a place in the market!!! Arm and Intel have AMD CORNERED!!!!!

      • CyberGusa

        “The dramatic increase of ARM based device sales has gone the opposite of
        economy’s state especially with people buying these devices on a yearly
        basis (both smartphone and tablet costing more than a PC).”
        This is simply because people who have to settle with less choose products that provides as wide range of usages as possible.

        Smart Phones cover phone, PDA, camera, GPS, etc… all in a single device.

        While mobile tablets are still cheaper than PC tablets… PC tablets can cost thousands!

        “Given a better economy, the gap between ARM and Intel device sales will still exist.”

        Not the way you think, Intel devices offer more and people when given a choice often choose what gives them more!

        If the same device can be used as a mobile device and a traditional PC then they’ll choose it over a device that can only be used as a mobile device!

        There’s nothing magical about ARM, Intel may have issue getting power consumption lower but they already have the performance aspect covered. While ARM may have the power efficiency covered but they got a long way to go before they can also provide better performance.

        The only thing in ARM’s favor is the idea of good enough performance but that’s a moving target! What’s good enough now won’t be good enough later and people will invariably want and even need more!

        “You’re too focused on head to head comparisons of the chips and not looking at the market.”

        No, I’m including the market, and the fact is x86 support everything but ARM doesn’t! Google directly supports ATOM mobile devices, so they get the latest version etc. The only compatibility issue is with ARM optimized apps, which are primarily games, but Google makes it easy to optimize app for either x86 or ARM or just to make the app hardware agnostic, which cover most Android apps.

        Intel already has a couple design wins for ATOM based Android Smart Phones and the reality is most regular people don’t care what’s inside as long as the device does what they want!

      • KT

        I used to buy a notebook every year. Now I buy a smartphone and a tablet every year. The last PC I bought was in 2009.

      • CyberGusa

        And unlike a Smart Phone from 2009, that laptop is still useful!

        Different market… Mobile devices are constantly pushing the limits and thus have a much higher reason to want or even need to upgrade.

        Lack of support also enforces this… much harder to have the latest OS, etc when support usually ends in a year or two.

        Sure, you can probably update it yourself but most people don’t ever change the OS themselves other than clicking yes to a automatic update.

        While a PC is easily customizable and usually much more upgradeable than most mobile devices.

      • KT

        I don’t know, I haven’t turned it on since 2011.

        The lack of support for mainly Android phones is one of the reasons why I buy a new one every year. Guess I’m playing right into their hands.

        Then again, Apple supports the iPad for a somewhat long time yet I still buy one every year.

      • CyberGusa

        Yes, the lack of support is primarily a Android issue… primary because there are so many different companies and the hardware is far more fragmented than Apple…

        Apple only has to support their own hardware specs… supporting just a few product variations and they discontinue support for older products past a certain point.

        So iOS only really has to run on the latest i-Device, with past devices being supported as long as they’re still compatible.

        Both Android and iOS devices are still pretty limited though and thus improvements are more significant than seen for traditional PC’s in the same time frame.

        Especially, since the OS can change as rapidly as the devices are upgraded.

        Like Android Gingerbread vs Jelly Bean, a lot of change in just a few years…

      • KT

        “If the same device can be used as a mobile device and a traditional PC then they’ll choose it over a device that can only be used as a mobile device!”

        That’s why I get the iPad. It does everything I do on my PC. The only time I need a PC is at work and iPads and Android tablets have been creeping their way in for a while in that space.

        I don’t care what the SoC is in my phone but I definitely won’t be buying those ZTE, Huawei, etc. ones. They’re not exactly on top of updates. The Motorola one isn’t very appealing and it’s a low end phone. It’s going to take a while before Apple, Samsung, Google/Motorola, HTC, Nokia, etc. to make good Intel phones and tablets. When they do, it’s going to take some time for people to give it a chance as well. Many will care when they hear Intel.

        I read so many comments about Intel and battery life from people like Jml. They take a while if ever to let go of past and no longer relevant experiences. When Intel beats ARM in direct comparisons, these people won’t care. Also, I’m sure there is some brand loyalty going on among enthusiasts even with SoCs (not just who made the device) and those people probably buy new phones less than a year from their last one.

        I agree with Jase that Intel needs help from companies by making Intel compatible software and devices. The decline of PC sales isn’t helping on the Wintel side. I guess that includes Apple PCs too. Windows Blue’s affect is just speculation right now too.

      • CyberGusa

        “Many will care when they hear Intel.”

        Maybe, but I doubt it, most people who buy PC’s aren’t very technical and don’t really understand what processor names and specs all mean… This is even more true of those who buy mobile devices and that means they just need to experience how the product is to be used and that usually does it for them…

        Of course a lot of people ask advice but aside from possible popular bias, there’s quickly less and less reason not to use a Intel vs ARM.

        ATOM SoCs are being competitively priced to ARM SoCs, achieving similar run times and power efficiencies and besides Google directly supports Android on Intel based Smart Phones…

        So it’s mainly just a question of developers and mainly just for games as most Android apps are hardware agnostic.

        While Intel use of a translation layer easily allows over 90% compatibility… and developer tools for optimizing apps for ATOM already exists.

        Only thing it’ll have to compete with other platforms that also fight for developers to optimize for them like Nvidia Tegra series. Along with all the different GPU’s being used in mobile devices.

        Intel switching back to their own GPU technology with the 22nm update also may have some developers deciding to wait but from that point forward it does look like Intel would be a in a good position to compete.

        They probably will never dominate the mobile market but they don’t have to just to succeed. ARM is divided among the many different companies that make ARM based products, and Intel just has to do about as well as one of them and not against the entire ARM market.

        While ARM chances of competing in Intel’s traditional PC market is also a uphill climb and similarly have many challenges to overcome, with a lot of what we know now being mostly speculation.

        So, we’ll just have to wait and see how it plays out… but the market constantly evolves and niches can always happen for products that alternatives don’t fulfill for whatever reasons and that may be where AMD may still have a place between Intel and ARM in the mobile space.

    • drjayphd

      Hater. Singular. In this thread, it’s one person with some serious unresolved issues.

      • guy

        Ya, sounds like Jml is one of those guys who had a single bad experience with a brand then swears off all their products and goes on an internet rampage bashing them for probably the rest of their life no matter how the company has progressed. Happens all the time.

        I still have grandparents who swear off Honda and Toyota because they think they’re still unreliable pieces of junk.

    • http://www.facebook.com/mr.e.cameron Earl Cameron

      just a note this is a 3 year old design and 1 year old offering…temash is around the corner

  • Rahmat Hidayat